21 Kids Later: The Truth About Foster Care, Loss, and Adoption

There is so much rejection in foster care that is self imposed and we signed up for this to really support families who are in crisis.If you think about this, and we could not fathom a situation ever where if we had our own children, we were in crisis, we needed support, we needed a landing place where not one person in our sphere was, would volunteer to take our children and that they would go to strangers. Like we could not fathom that.

It's the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt. I'm your host, Rachel Fulgenetti.

I am so pleased to welcome Emily McDaniel to the show today. Emily has been a foster care provider for several years. She's welcomed 21 foster care placements from newborn to late teen kids into her home.And through foster care she's become a forever mom to a 2 year old little girl and a 21 year old boy with so and a 21 year old boy. So Emily, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.

Thanks so much for having me.

Yeah, we were connected by a mutual friend and we've kind of played email tag for quite a while. So I'm glad that we finally hooked this up.

It's interesting timing too, I think actually, like you know, just over the course of time, like schedule, scheduling is hard but right now is just probably it meant to be.

Oh, that's great. I'm so glad to hear that.So I read a little bit about you and I know that you had a, it seems like you grew up, you had a great background growing up and learned a lot of compassion and that that sort of informed your decision to get into foster care. I'd love to hear more about that.

Yeah, so I grew up in a family oriented faith based home and our family dynamic and kind of like the core of who we were was serving others, serving our community, serving our church. And that kind of led us to honestly having a similar open door policy where we were helping people within our community.And that was just instilled honestly in our like family DNA.And I remember when I was a kid I was, you know, for whatever reason, like orphans, like I, I felt so tender hearted toward and had like this heart for kids all over the world that like were orphaned. And I always thought I was gonna, you know, grow up and be some executive director of an orphanage overseas.And interestingly enough I have, you know, you know, I have two orphans actually that I have been able to adopt through foster care.And it's funny to see how like how my My little childhood dream of being, you know, of running an orphanage is now happening in a metro of call of Denver, Colorado. And here I am.

Yeah, like in your own home. That is so beautiful. Tell me what prompted you to actually be like, okay, now is the time I'm going to start doing foster care.

Yeah. I had a friend who did foster care through like a missional community that I was a part of. And so she had adopted a little girl through foster care.And that little girl had a biological sister. And so they took her when she was, you know, place in foster care. And I connected with her like immediately.It was like a weird, you know, I always wanted to be a mom. And the nurturing, like my, you know, the nurture that I had, I've always been like, I've always just loved kids. But this child, it felt different.Like I felt like I was like meant to be, you know, her mom. And in, in that situation years ago, it did not work out for me to do foster care, to, you know, adopt her.But I changed my, it changed my mind about like I could do this. And my husband and I, we are, we're not able to have biological children and you know, adopt.Like the question is always like, do you know, you could try in vitro. You can, you know, do adoption. And there are so many kids that need a home. And we just thought let's just try to open up our home to foster care.And so far it's, you know, obviously we didn't necessarily like we were trying to adopt through foster care, but it's, it's kind of a sweet thing how, how my, how our family has grown.

Absolutely. I think that's wonderful. I, right there with you also wasn't able to have biological children and came to that same conclusion.Like I think there, there might be somebody already here that, that needs us. Let's do that, you know.So how long was it before you got your first placement and you mentioned that you weren't necessarily trying to adopt, but you were open to that. So what did that look like? How, how did, how did it go when you first opened your home?

Yeah, so my husband and I got married in September of 2019 and we did our first foster care, like introduction through an organ here in Colorado that helps train. Not. It wasn't a place for agency, it was just to train foster parents in January of 2020 and we signed up for the class.And then obviously with the pandemic, everything stopped. This organization wasn't able to facilitate obviously any more in person training. So. And they were shifting to this virtual model.And so we were, we went through the training virtually through the pandemic on a screen. And I, at the time I was just wanting a community of other like minded people. And it was hard to do that through training through a screen.And I will say the community, the foster community is somebody, is something that is so special and different. And, and we, since then we got, you know, we got, we went through the certification. We got our first placement in August of 2021.So it did take longer, I think. And the, my foster community has grown since with every placement.

That's so amazing. And when you say your foster community, do you mean the other families that are also fostering?

Yeah.

I find this fascinating and I love it so much, so much because we didn't have that. I was really not connected with anyone else who was doing it at the time.And it was difficult because, you know, I just didn't have, I had supportive friends, but no one who really was like going through it at the same time. Can you talk a little bit about what that's like and how you have fostered that community?

Yeah, you know, we had, during one of the training classes that we were a part of, we were supposed to identify five individuals or five people that would be our tribe outside of like the foster care community.So you know, we had some, you know, some of our best friends and our, you know, neighbors and they all committed to walking alongside my husband and I when we were doing this foster journey.And it's great in the concept, but it is really challenging, I think from the non foster people to understand what it is that foster parents walk through.So much so that Even now, like 21 placements later, I'm not calling my family, I'm not calling my best friend, I'm calling my foster community to say, hey, I, I'm taking a placement and this is what I need. It's not because they don't want to help, it's not because they can't help. It's just, it's just different.And that it was a big mind, a mind shift for me because I, I am not necessarily the most like, I'm an open person, but I don't feel like I'm like trying to like hoard a whole bunch of friends.And you know, one of the mutual friends that we actually met through is, you know, one of my best friends and a foster mom and we live life together and it has, it has changed my life, has changed her life and we're forever like our kids. Are cousins. Yeah. And you know, it's. And that has just perpetuated with other people in our community.We have a neighborhood of, you know, four foster family families that are certified with the same agency where we got, like, we got you, right? No matter what it is, we're here for you.

And do you all, like, live close by?

Yeah, yeah. Literally the house behind me is one foster home, you know, five houses down. It's. It's pretty incredible.

And. And was that like, that just happened? Like, it just so happens that you all lived close by and like.

Yeah, kinda. So it's one of the. One of the families that was already established in this neighborhood.My husband and I moved here and then it was like, you know, we were like, this neighborhood is great. And then people just started moving into our neighborhood. So it's. And still more to come.

I think that's an ideal situation. I mean, I just do. Because I think it does take a village a.And I also think, like, for not only for you guys as parents, but like, for these children to have examples of other healthy families that have been brought together in this way and other children who are navigating the system and all of that. I just think it's incredibly valuable and really smart and I just love it.It's like a real model that I think a lot of communities and agencies could like, look at and be like, wow, this is an example of something that's really working.

Yeah, we are definitely modeling this. This community to our kids as being so normal when foster care is the most unnatural thing.And I think our social, like, our social structure and, and just being people, it's so unnatural. So. So we are just making it as normal as possible for our kids.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me about the 21 placements. Were these. Did you. Have you taken in sibling sets or was this 21 different placements or.Tell me just a little bit about all of that and then how you ended up adopting your. Your little one.

Yeah. So we are. We opened our home from like ages 0 to 18. We knew they kind of had like, prepped us to like, know that if you want.If you're a baby, like, if you want babies, like, that's just not how this works. And we didn't necessarily know like, what our niche was going to be or what we were going to really like, kind of enjoy, if that makes sense.And so we open our home from 0 to 18. We wanted to keep siblings together. That was something very interesting to us.I remember during our certification, our, like, they said you know, how many kids would you like us to certify your home for? And we were like, I mean, two. And they're like, well, you have. Technically, you have enough space for four. And we're like, oh, my. Like, what?Four kids? No, that's never going to happen. Well, funny enough, up to six months ago, we had five kids in our home, living in our home.And that's just how foster care works. Right. But we did mostly foster or mostly sibling sets. We did a mutual care placement, which was very interesting to us.And we definitely think that, you know, moving forward, we would. We would be, you know, more keen to open our home to mutual care placements.

Can you tell the listeners what that is? If they're unfamiliar? Yeah.

So mutual care placement is as a. As a typically a teen youth mom. So the, The. Our child was the mom who's bringing a child into. Into the home with her.So we have a grandson and a granddaughter through, you know, through our foster care journey, which was, you know, I mean, I got to be at the birth, you know, so just a really incredible experience to walk alongside a young mom who is. Has been faced with, not necessarily the best model of what it. What it looks like to be, you know, a nurturing, safe, you know, mom.So that was, it was definitely rewarding and honestly, also challenging. But it was nice to have a baby in the home without having a baby.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I get that.

Yeah. And our, our little ones, so, you know, we have been dubbed the, the foster parents that this has never. This has never happened before.And I, at one point, we looked at our cert worker, you know, our certification worker, and we were like, even if it has never happened before, could you please stop telling us that this has never happened before? So we all, like, we just have gotten the unicorn. It feels like we've gotten the unicorns of, you know, of the. Of the foster journey.So, yeah, we took, you know, sibling sets. We took, you know, mutual care placement. And then we hadn't got. We hadn't received a call for a, you know, a baby or an infant or anything like that.And we got a call from our cert worker, and she said, emily, I'm going to ask you to do the hardest thing you've ever been asked to do. And immediately it took me back to our first placement. I think.I don't know, you know, if anybody has said this before, but, like, your first place, that wrecks you in ways that, like, you never expect to be wrecked, in our opinion.You know, we were heart eyes and like the system is here to protect children and we, you know, like, it's all going to work out and end up fine and then your dreams are crushed and it's like, and your heart is just like bleeding out and pooped out of your home and it's, you know, so immediately my mind went back to my, our first placement.They're coming back into care, which is honestly my worst nightmare because that means that the system failed them and they re entered a, a situation that was not safe and that wasn't the case. She had let us know that there was a baby that was delivered in a hospital that was surrendered under the safe haven law.And in Colorado those, those babies who are surrendered enter into foster care. And so it was a foster to adopt situation through that law. And we said yes.And the grief and the, the grief for the mom that is out there in the community, in our community who's living without a piece of her, without being ever able to, you know, find her or know her or see her face or hear her voice.Really, it, I, I carried a lot of grief for mom and also for our little one who is gonna walk through life her entire year or her entire life just being sir, you know, surrendered or abandoned. That was a, it was probably one of the hardest things that my heart could have ever been asked to do. And I am honored to, to be her mom.

Yeah. Yeah, I really can relate to that. My, my son was a safe surrender.So I know what you mean about the unicorn situations and I think about it all the time. I just, I know that, you know, that that can never, that, that piece of the picture is just.There's always going to be questions there and that, that, that is really, really hard to, to think about.You know, although I, I suppose that at some point they could go to a, like a, a DNA place and then if the mom happened to have also signed up for it, they could find each other that way and I would be supportive of that. How do you feel about that?

Yeah, same. So our, you know, talking about like the, the orphan that I felt like as a kid I was gonna be involved in.Our 21 year old, his mom passed away and he never knew his, his father and he wanted to find his, you know, find his DNA relatives on his father's side. And so I've, we've already had walked through a similar situation where we were like, okay, how do we feel about this?How can we like, can we support this? And ultimately we said to our son that we are 100% supportive. Once you open that box, you can't, you can't put it back, which is great.And also there are things that we could face together. And so 100% with our little one, we would be one, like 100% supportive of her finding her, you know, finding her roots, because that's what it is.These kids don't have roots outside of the family that has been created for them.

That's right. Yeah. Even just medical history, even truly like ethnicity for us where like we guess, we think, but there's nothing confirmed. So, yeah, it is.It's really tough.You mentioned your 21 year old and I did see a piece that was on the news about, about that story and I would love for you to share that story with our listeners because it's, it's a great one.

Yeah. So this, this is kind of where, like, my heart, like, I feel really emotional because. So he came into care when he was 17 voluntarily.His mom had passed away from brain cancer and he was her caregiver for. Since he was 12 years old. So really just walked through what it was to be a cancer patient survivor and then ultimately losing his mom to cancer.And he was really just trying to do it on his own and was not able to do it. So he voluntarily entered into foster care, which is so brave and terrifying.I don't think anybody's going to be surprised that like, the foster care system is not. Doesn't have the best light as providers where, you know, you're going into foster care. It's going to be terrible. Like, you know, you know, and he.So we had an opportunity to kind of like, date before he came to live with us. And so which was, which was perfect for him. I remember getting the call. I was on a business trip and it was a week before Thanksgiving.The call came in and they're like, you know, we have this, this, you know, young, young man and his cat. And I was like, okay, didn't ever think again I would be a foster grandma to a cat. But okay. And he didn't have a place to go for Thanksgiving.And I was like, he's, he's got. Yes, like one. Yes, bring him to me now. And I need him to be with our family for Thanksgiving.He would let me share with you that, that Thanksgiving he did not come over to our house, but he ended up writing a suicide letter and trying to, you know, take his life. He obviously failed, which is one of the. I don't know. It changed it that him not succeeding at that Changed my life and obviously his life.So he came into care, lived, moved in with us in December, was not interested in adoption, really, just kind of wanted to stabilize and. But we found. We found family with him. He has. He has since moved out on his own through the foster. The Foster Care Youth in Transition program.So he lives in an apartment. He's doing amazing. He comes over every weekend to our home. His younger sisters look up to him and just think that he, like, has hung the moon.He is just my pride and joy. And it's so, like, I just wish that people could see the transformation of this. Of this young man.And we can't take all the credit and we don't, but he is just. He's such a special. A special young man, even to the point where he's. He wants to continue his involvement with foster care.He coaches flag football for youth. Oh, he's just the best. He's the best.

Wow, that is just incredible.

Yeah, we. So we adopted him. Yeah. We ended up adopting him in November. He was 20. It was the oldest. This is. This has never happened before.That was, you know, again, here we are dubbed the. We've never done this before. The oldest youth that was adopted in the foster care system.

Wow. Like in Colorado or something.

In our county. Yeah.

Okay.

You know, we didn't even know we could adopt a 20 year old.

Right.

And they. The. The department, the county, everybody was just so supportive of. Of that outward expression of. Of making family.And he hyphenated his name, changed his name to ours. It's so cute.

It's so beautiful.

Yeah.

Did he bring it up? You said at first he wasn't interested in being adopted. Did he come to you and say, hey, I actually do want to be adopted, or how did that go?

Yeah, he did. So after Emory. After Emory, our little one was adopted. I think that kind of changed. I think it changed something for him. Seeing.Seeing that, walking through that with her and I. It's kind of funny. He brought it up when he was getting in trouble, you know, he knew he was gonna get busted for something.And he's like, before we have this conversation, I want to tell you I want to be adopted.

And we were like, oh, no, that's

not how this works.

Yeah, that's not. Yeah.

Yeah. And so we just thought it was. Exactly. We just thought it was something that was like, okay.But he was so persistent, and he was like, no, I want to be adopted. And, you know, we were like, hey, like, this doesn't change anything. You're Ours forever. But he was, he was so persistent.And, you know, the name thing is something We've had the opportunity to name two children that were born without a name.And I don't know if people realize, like, when you are, when you are, you know, pregnant yourself and when you're picking a name, you have, you know, months to, to think about it and to decide and like, you know, do we loop in, like, do we loop in family names or like, what this means? And in our situation, it's very unique to be picking unnamed babies names in, in my opinion. And that's a lot of weight, right? Because a name is.A name is an identity that you carry on with you.And when he obviously said he wanted to hyphenate his name to me, that was just like, first of all, changing your name is a pain in the butt and nobody wants to do it, right? You're changing, you know, legal documents, you're changing your id. And he was so committed to having that as part of who he is.And so it was an honor for him to not only be so persistent on the adoption, but also to choose us. He chose us.

Yes.

And we've not necessarily had the privilege of being chosen through foster care. We, as much as, you know, maybe we would have liked, if that makes sense.

It does. Do you? What, what do you mean by that? Can you say a little bit more about that?

Yeah. There is so much rejection in foster care that is self imposed. And you. We signed up for this to, to really support families who are in crisis.If you think about this, you know, and we could not fathom a situation ever where if we had our own children, we were in crisis, we needed support, we needed a landing place where not one person in our sphere would volunteer to take our children and that they would go to strangers. Like, we could not fathom that. And if you really sit and think, you sit with that and think about it again, it's.It to me, either the community has failed, some failed here somewhere, or we have just exhausted all of our resources. And so with taking kids into our care with the hope of reunification, our theme for foster care is we get kids to where they want to be.And so we have currently four kids in our home. And each of them, we have a plan of getting them to where they want to be.Out of 21 kids, we have three that have said, this is where we want to be, whether, I mean, our little one couldn't. But, you know, and so there's just so much rejection in foster care. And you Know, on purpose. It's supposed to be, it's supposed to be that way.But if, if you have, you know, given your heart to something or to someone and they're like, I have, I have 17, you know, 18 kids out in the world today. I don't have access to that. I think about every day.

Mm. Yeah, that's hard. Yep. That really is. Do you, have you been able to maintain a relationship with any of them?

Some, you know, the older kids we've, you know, we've, we have done taken placement for, for older kids. So some. And I, the, you know, I mentioned the timing earlier.We, about six months ago we had a situation where our kids that we were designated to adopt decided that they wanted to be in a different family outside of their family network. So re entering into foster care to find another permanent option. That wrecked me.

Yeah, I can imagine. And because you're, you're thinking about their road and what they're going to face now and what potentially could happen. Right. Am I right there?I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's so tricky because. Right. We want what's best for of our kids. Whether we are a temporary care provider or an adoptive mom or just a foster mom.Right. Or, you know, foster parents, we want the best for them. We think we know what's best for them.But honestly, like, this is kind of a choose your own adventure book where you get to decide what you want and you can make the best out of whatever situation comes to you. Also, we have flowers, fully developed frontal cortex. Like we have fully developed brains. We've lived life.We know, we know what's out there and, and being not being chosen by those kids and thinking that there's something better out there for them personally was really hard.I mean, yeah, I'm a, I'm a 40 year old grown up that is working through my own stuff and has my, have my own trauma and have my own baggage that I, you know, that I show up with and do a lot of work to not pass that along to anybody who's in my life or my sphere. But there's that and then, yeah, just wanting the best for these kids. And I think what's hard is I.You do hope that what you're doing as a foster care provider is what's best, but maybe there is something better out there. Like that's what you just have to anchor into. Like, okay, they did not me. They are going to have something different and hopefully that's.That different is the best, right?

It's. It's like also, this is their path. Like, this is their path. And that is. It might not be better or worse. It might not be.It's just this is, this is their life path. This is what they are here to go through and experience and learn from and all of the things, you know, and.And we don't know why that is or what what that means or what they'll have to go through. You know, we. Yeah, we don't have control over any of that. How old were the children? If you don't mind me asking? I'm just curious.

Yeah, so they were 11 and 13.

Huh. We had them for two years. Oh, wow. That's a long time.

It is a long time.

Did you leave the door open in terms of, like, if this doesn't work out, you want to come back? Or is that just like, how did you. How did you handle it with them? Did you say that? So.

No.

Okay.

And this is something that is, I think time heals all wounds. Right.And we've actually had an experience that I can touch on, but with them, because of the fracture of our family that we had created with, you know, our youngest and 13 year old were like best friends. They were each other's people.And when you look at, you know, attachment with foster kids and some of the challenges with attachment, you know, you're always wondering, like, will this child ever be able to attach to me as a caregiver?And with the older one, I saw him attached to our young, you know, to our little girl, and I knew there was no attachment concerns because of their love for each other. Wherever one was, the other was, you know, like. And there's a 12 year old difference, but they were besties and I. To protect.To protect that, you know, the. The family, our. Our family, our. My heart, Their heart. We just needed. We just needed some space.Interestingly enough, they're still very, very close to us in proximity and. And soon I think we'll have an opportunity maybe to, you know, to see them. And obviously I wish them amazing things, but it was just really.It was just really hard.

Yeah. I thank you for sharing that. It's a. It's really, really deep.I mean, I really get that and I appreciate your honesty and being able to talk about that because that is. That's. That's really tough. That's really tough.

They're kids making. Being empowered to make adult decisions that, you know, at the end of the day, you look at them and, and you just.They're just kids, you know, they're just.

Yeah.

And they have, they made, you know, they, they were empowered to make a, a really big life. Life decision. It's hard to, it's hard to support fracturing of a family when, when the system empowers you to do that.

Yeah, I, I'm wondering where the county came down on that. Like, and also, was it a surprise for you?Like, did you just, did you just assume you were moving towards adoption and then they just were like, wait a minute. Or did, did the county say, okay, you need to make a decision to the children? Like, how. How did that, how did it play out?

Yeah, I. So it wasn't a surprise. I think there were, there were things that, you know, were.We were left scratching our head, you know, wondering, like, what if. So we had, we had. There they were in therapy. We are all. We're a therapeutic home.We are like, if you're going to live in our house, you're going to be in therapy. That doesn't matter if you are the parent, the child, the dog. We are all in therapy.And so, you know, one of the, one of the therapists that they were working with, you know, had, had suggested that, you know, if they do venture, you know, if parental rights are terminated ever, that they have an opportunity to choose who they, you know, who they live with as far as their parents and, you know, kind of dream about what that looks like for you and what would you want out of a family if it's not, you know, Shane and Emily and I, I think that that thought probably rooted itself way before we had a chance to ever course correct. Also, that placement was a, an emergency placement that was going to be one night and then three days and then three months and then two.So, you know, we never really had like, the opportunity to set it up, in my opinion, to be like, you know, we are here for you forever. It was like, we're just getting through the weekend, we're just getting through the month, we're just getting to the next court date.And so I, you know, so that there's, there's some of that. I think what was surprising is, you know, out of 23 home visits, the kids said, yes, this is where I want to be.Yes, if I can't go home, then I want to stay here. 23 times they said that, and then the 24th time they said that they want to move to a different home. And the wheels were in motion. I. Wow.Also, you know, one of the tricky things is that, is that the you know, biological mother was fighting really hard to get them back. And we, you know, we were suggested to do some fam. Some therapeutic conversations. Some people would call that family therapy.You can't call that family therapy when you're a foster provider because you're not a family. So, you know, having some like, therapeutic conversations about, you know, connection and attachment and living with strangers. I mean, all of that.And we were, we were not allowed or able to ever do that until after termination. At that point, it was too late.

That's nuts. Why. Why would they not allow that? That's just nuts. They wouldn't allow you to have. Go ahead.

Yeah.The answer from the, from the system is that if you, if you have therapeutic conversations with a foster care provider, you're not supporting reunification. And if the goal is reunification nonsense, then it's our job to do everything we can to support that which we weren't. We were not.Not supporting that. We were very much supportive of reunification. But. And so there was, so there was this, like, yeah, we, like, we want you to go home. We want.

Yes.

And also we are your permanent option. If that doesn't happen two days before termination, they move. They told us that the team, that they were going to move.

Who. Wow. Wow. That is. That just seems. Yeah, I don't really have words for that. And I'm sure, yeah, you've had to be living with this now for six months.And yeah, it's. It's unfortunate that they didn't give the children more time. I mean, first of all, that's a really big step. So termination.They're old enough that they're aware of that. Probably really confronted. I mean, that's a really big scary deal. Right. And to. To, as you said, be confronted with this choice or to, to take.Just to, to take the. To make that kind of a monumental decision as a. An 11 and a 13 year old, or however old you just said they were is. Wow.Yeah, that is, that's really something. And I guess, like, my next question for you is after that experience, like, having had that experience, how do you. Are you still. Can you.Will you continue just going on and interfacing with the system and doing this and how do you. How do you do that?

Yeah.One of the things that makes, I think me really good at foster care with my personality is that like, when something is done, like, I, you know, I'm like moving on. Right. So, you know, this situation has impacted me probably more than any other placement other than our first. Just because.Yeah, you're Left with like scratching your head about like, what did I not do? It's, it's amazing, right? Like, what did I not do to provide, you know, a sense of family safety, like nurture connection, like in our home.Which is, which is what I pride myself in. I want to give kids that place to reset. And I also know it's not that I didn't do that, so I'm very anchored into that.But there's a lot now and a lot of rejection and a sense of like, am I even the right person to be doing this? And the answer is yes. Right. Anybody who says yes to caring for children in crisis, that is doing it for the right reason is, is meant to do it.We just took a placement, a temporary placement of a 16 year old boy a week and a half ago.And those feelings of how I failed, specifically the, you know, the older, the, you know, the older one, the boy has just been coming up and I just really miss him. I just really miss him.And I don't necessarily think I let myself miss him because I was feeling so rejected and I just needed to hold my family together as this fracture, as this divorce was happening. This divorce, a family that had committed to each other. Two little girls who know, who know nothing other than these two older siblings.

Yeah.

We have pictures that come up and they're like, that's Cissy, that's Bubba and, and, and I don't know that they'll ever not be Sissy and Bubba. And we don't want them to ever not be Sissy and Bubba.

Yeah.

And I'm keeping my family together and I'm not letting myself grieve through this loss. And it's coming up. When I said yes again, we're not done for sure with foster care. The system is just so broken.And I am going to advocate on behalf of children, foster care providers, you know, bio families to the system to help probably you know, create some change. I'm not afraid of giving a little dissonance of, you know, with.

Yeah.

Also the system. I have very strong relationships with, you know, with caseworkers, with, and respect for everyone involved on the, in the, in child welfare.It's a tough job. You're making decisions that you think is best. Same, same. So let's just like all get along.Let's just all work toward the same goal and learn from something you learn from.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Were you ever able to speak with that therapist? Who, who.I'm just curious if you ever were ever talk to that therapist and you Know, ask them if they thought about, like, I. I don't know. Yeah, I wish. This probably not like a helpful part of the conversation, but I.

Well, except it is. It is really tricky what, like, what you say to kids and what takes root in foster care. You would be surprised, right?Like, I remember when we were having a conversation, like, the week before, they told us, we were like, okay, if, you know, if we aren't what you want or what you need, what is. What is it in your perfect family?And the, you know, the young girl, she's like, well, I would like my foster parents to drive a Tesla and to make good food and to. And I don't want to be punished. I just want to be yelled at. Like, I don't want consequences. I just want to be verbally assaulted.And it's like, all of these things, right?

Yeah.

That's a kid showing up and saying, I think it'd be cool to have a parent with an electric car or, I'm not a cook. I don't like it. I. It's something that creates a lot of stress in my. In my body and my nervous system.And so, yeah, there is probably a family out there that cooks way better than I do and likes to do it. But then, you know, you're asking them what they want for dinner, and they're like, we want a hot dog, Chicken nuggets, grilled cheese.I'm like, yeah, I'm good with that. I can handle that. So it's just like, how. You know what they say? But really, you know, the older.The older boy was obviously way mature for his age, and.And could look at this and say, you know, that even though we are, you know, offering stability, connection, you know, a faith base, you know, that was important to them, it just. It was beyond repair because of what took root.And so to answer your original question, no, I have not talked to that therapist about, you know, mentioning that. And this is. Again, choose your own adventure. But there's not necessarily, like, a catalog of foster parents that are going to meet the requirements.And maybe there is, but.

Right.

Going back to, like, but this is their journey, so maybe. Maybe it is.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. And how is your husband through all of this? Like, how did he handle. How has he handled all of this?

My husband is very even keel. Temperament. We. We foster with a lot of humor. And this was something that was really upsetting, I think. You know, it. It definitely pissed him off.And I want to say that, like, it. It's okay to be pissed off, right?

Yeah. Yep.

Because there's a lot of things where, you know, as foster providers, you're just kind of like, meant to just be more complacent and like, just okay. Like, you know, unfazed by decisions that. That the system, you know, that just go on. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. This is our family.This is a fracture in our family after two years. And yes, this is like, yes, we'll do what we need to do to. To move this along, but we're. We're gonna be. We're gonna be dealing with it on our end.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's one thing that I hear over and over again in a lot of, like, the foster care, the groups that I'm in. And I can identify with this.It's like that foster parents aren't like, we're not supposed to be like human beings with, like, feelings and like, you know, or. It sure seems like that sometimes that it's like our feelings are the only feelings in the thing that kind of get disregarded.And it's kind of like, well, this is what you signed up for. And, you know, there is this human element that is undeniable that you cannot, you know, it's just. It's just challenging. It's really difficult.And you can be absolutely. For reunification and supporting reunification and also, you know, have feelings and be a human being. So I just.I really get that we're coming to our time. End of our time here, and I feel like I could talk to you forever. What would you.What's advice that you would give to anyone who's thinking about embarking on this journey?

Know your why and anchor in over and over and over. We were asked in the training, like, to. To know your why. Our why has changed.So our original why was we wanted to partner with families of origin, to co parent in a. In a moment of crisis, and to support reunification. And that has never happened yet.Not one bio family has been like, sign me up for being a co parent here with, you know, these foster parents.

Yeah.

But our why has changed to we are. We are foster care providers to help get kids to where they want to be. Because that, like, that's our job.And so we anchor in that why, even if it's not us. And that's okay.

Yeah. Got it. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

Put it on your wall. Put it on your mirror. Whenever you forget about what. You know, why we're doing this? Because I ask every day, like, why am I doing this? Yeah.

Wow. Well, I want to say thank you for doing this.And I also want to say, like I have to say this because it's just in my head, I feel like you should maybe run for office someday. Like some kind of, I don't know, like a local office or something. You seem like. So I would vote for you. So I'm just putting that out there.Emily, thank you so much for sharing your journey today. I really appreciate it and I just wish you all the love and luck and light in the world.

Thank you. Thank you for your time.

This has been the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to adopt produced by Aquarius Rising.Original music compared to composed by Joe Fulginetti.For more information or to stay in touch, visit from foster to forever.com that's from foster the number2forever.com and stay connected with us on Instagram at foster2forever podcast. That's foster the number two forever podcast. We'll see you next time.

Sam.