Embracing the Unexpected in Foster Care with Nikki Zakocs

The biggest thing is like, you just have to really be flexible and open to anything. If you go in with a mindset of this is how I want it to be. Exactly, it's not going to happen.

It's the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt. I'm your host, Rachel Fulgenetti.

I am so happy to introduce a fellow audiobook narrator to the show. She was also a foster mom for several years and I can't wait to dig in with her. Nikki Zakox, Welcome.

Thank you. Hi.

Give us a little bit of background how you came to foster care firstly and what that looked like for you.

So I have three biological children and when they were 5, 7, 9ish, my husband and I were discussing adoption, having a fourth, but like my body was done with doing any more birthing and I've just always been interested in adoption. I have a lot of friends who have adopted and something that was always just close to my heart.So we, you know, we started and did the dig the deep dig into the black hole of what adoption is and how you can adopt and all the different options. It was very overwhelming.And we took six months to a year, my husband and I, and we did a lot of talking, a lot of discussing and it just came down to many different factors of if we were going to do it, it was probably going to have to be international and, and with cost and having three kids and everything else in life, we just decided that was not gonna happen for us.

Let me ask you just out of curiosity, why international? Why would it have to be international?

Well, at the time, yes, that's a great question. We were just thinking, trying to remember this is like so far back, so I really wanna make sure I get my answers right.I had a lot of friends who had adopted internationally. So I think that was the path that I was looking at. And at the time I had two friends, very close friends who had adopted internationally.So I just automatically went that path. And then once we went in and we did more research, then we realized that there were so many other ways to do it.

Makes sense.

And it led us to the foster to adopt path. And we went into it very open minded. We didn't know what we were going to do.We just, first of all, I was just kind of surprised that my husband was like, sure, let's do it. We had the training was like six weeks or something like that. He's like, I can do anything for six weeks. He was very open minded and it surprised Me.And it made me very excited about it. So we went into it very open, not really knowing what to expect, what we wanted, what we were going to do.And it ended up because I was a stay at home mom.After we went through our licensing and everything like that, basically we just got the newborns like straight from the hospital, most of them premature or with medical issues. And when you get those, they're not like, they're not a quick. It's not a quick visit, you know, so we had them all for very long periods of time.

You were seeking to adopt, not to.

We were open to adopt.

Oh.

We were really focus on the fostering with, with being open to adopt. We just didn't know. We didn't understand. We didn't know what we were doing or what we were getting into. We were open to anything.Let's say it this way. I was like, my heart was like, okay, I really want to do this to adopt. My husband was more like, let's take it step by step and see where it goes.

Got it.

Completely on the same path in my head. I was just like, this is what, this is what we're going to do. Let's just be open to it.

Got it. And were you clear at that time how sort of difficult it might be to adopt through foster care?Did they make that clear in the training and all of that kind of stuff?

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay. And did you involve your children in this discussion? Was there a discussion? How did you bring that up to the. I can't remember what you said.The youngest one was maybe six when we started.

She was seven. So yeah.

Okay. Okay. So at that point, so seven, what was it, nine and 11 or something like that. They can have a real conversation about this.Did you have that conversation?

Oh, yeah, we had the conversation. I mean, my youngest had to give up her bedroom to go share the bedroom with her sister in order to do this. And yeah, we had the family conversation.I mean, they were very excited about it. I mean, to what level they understood it at that time, I don't know.

Right.

But our life was chaos already up to that point. Having kids that close together, you know, it was a very chaotic, busy house.

Yes.

So it was like adding one more, you know.

Yeah, bring it on. So then you said that you wanted to do baby like that you wanted a baby if you possible. Is that what you told the.Were you going through an agency or the county?

Went through the county. And I was, we were open for anything, but because I was a stay at home mom and there's not many of those in the foster care system.That's what we got the calls for every time. Because those were the ones.There weren't anybody that they could just take them from the hospital and you can't put them in daycare until they're three months old. So they had to have somebody that was at home.

Yeah, that makes sense. Was that fine for you or were you like, oh, wow. I wasn't really expecting like a newborn because that's such a.If you're your youngest child is seven, going back to the newborn stages. That's a lot.

It was a lot.

Yeah.

I was fine with it. I was fine with it. After the, I think, you know, we had like seven. It got harder.And that will lead to probably why I later will tell you that we ended up not adopting.

Yes, yes. I would love to hear about the very first placement and then we probably don't have to go through each. All of them.But what was that like, the first placement? What happened?

So the very first placement was a three month old, so it wasn't directly from the hospital, but it was a young baby and it was like literally three days after we were licensed. So there was no, we didn't have a lot of time to think about it. They called and they said, we have this child and we need a placement right now.Can we bring her over? Just like that, you know, in the middle of the day.

And did you have the room set up? Was it set up for a baby or how was it set up?

So the room. We set it up with a crib and the twin bed. It was just very simple. Okay, a crib and a twin bed.I had a lot of, saved a lot of stuff for my kids as far as like clothes and decor and stuff like that.And then I lived in a community that was like, I, I think I sent out an email at that time and instantly I had people bringing over, you know, clothes, bottles, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, just enough to get started. Sure. I had, had, I had stocked up on a little bit of diapers and everything. You're training.

Yeah. Because you probably had no more car seats. Or maybe you did have a car seat for the seven year old, but you had to get an infant car.

Seat and I didn't have a car seat. Somebody in the neighborhood actually brought me that car seat. So yeah, everything was, was like that.

Yeah, yeah.I always like to mention that because a lot of people think I don't have the, the funds or I can't buy all this new stuff and it's like, it is amazing to me the way a community will rally over a foster child coming. Just such a great. It's so beautiful.

Yeah.

So, yeah, good. So you were set up, the baby came, they dropped off the baby and then what?

So, I mean, a beautiful baby girl, obviously. So that was great and beautiful, but literally within 24 hours, we had to be back at court, and that was that.And you know, at court, meet the biological parent and do all that. That was really scary.

Sure.

Difficult. Just never having to do anything like that and be put in that situation and not knowing what any.What was going to happen, what the reactions were going to be on the other side and all that kind of stuff. So. And you have to bring the baby with you to court, too, which is really weird.

Crazy.

Yeah, so did that. But then ended up having her for, I want to say, five months. And I mean, the experience was great. She fit right in. The kids loved her.I had a great social worker that was just very supportive and helped me with everything. You know, doctor's appointments. Like a lot of doctor's appointments.

Oh, yeah.

Getting the child set up on WIC so that when or if they move on or go back home, they have all those things so that whoever's taking them can get them the form. Basically, it's like about formula and. Or milk. Like the other things we didn't need, but you know, like, we didn't.Honestly, as a family, like, we were okay where we could have taken care of that child with whatever money we were getting, small amount of money we were getting so going. And like, getting them set up for all those things was not for us, it was for the child.Because you just don't know what's going to happen to the child. And when they move, move on, you want them to have everything that they can have for them.

Absolutely, yeah.

A doctor established all that kind of stuff, their Medicaid, all that stuff established. So that's like a whole nother thing you're not really ready for.

Right. And then that's a really good point to make because I think that, you know, a lot of people think, well, I don't. I don't need this.Like, we don't need to do Wiccan. And it's like, yeah, it's really not for you. It's for that child. What happened. So you had her for five months.I'm sure you were becoming attached at that point. Your family was becoming attached.And did it look like, like, were you kind of aware the entire time were you doing visitations with the family, were you aware that it looked like reunification was going to happen?

So, yeah, so we. We were doing visitations. She never ended up going back to her biological mom.She ended up going to a guardian, which was just a random friend of the mother's. Wasn't anybody related.And it was who originally wanted to take her when she went into custody, but for some reason they wouldn't let her, so she had to, whatever, get her license or whatever. The mom was a young mom who had two other children and had a lot of.

Were the other two children in the system already? Like, had she lost the other two children?

They were in the system, but they had a different father, and their father was a little bit more involved. So, like, the father would take them if he absolutely needed to.

Okay.

But this daughter was from a different father, and that father didn't want to have anything to do with her. It was, you know, it's always complicated. It's never just black and white.So she ended up going to that other person, as far as I know, that's who kept her forever.

And so you weren't able to keep in touch in any way or anything like that? No, no. Were you able to send any pictures with her? Any kind of stuff so that she could remember that?She won't remember it, really, but she can look back and know that she was kept safe for those five months and that she lived with you.

So after each child, I made a photo book that had photos from the whole time that they were with us with some writing on it with our names on the back in case, like, one went with the child, whoever they went with, and one also went to child Protective Services in their file. And then we kept one.So they had one, which probably, who knows, whoever took them may not have kept, but there's one in their file so that if they ever go look up their file.

That's so beautiful. And what a great idea. I've never heard of that. That's a really good tip to give one to the county for the file.Did your classes teach you that, or was that something you just thought of?

No, I just did it.

That's beautiful. Yeah, that's really good. Good thinking. So each time you got a new child in your home, did it get easier to let go or was it never easy?Like, was there a point where you were just like, okay, this is just another. It's probably not going to happen. I'm just curious about that.

No, I mean, it was never easy yeah. Especially sometimes knowing where they were going to. I will say, though, the.The more we did it, when they would go back to family, not necessarily their biological parents, but somebody within their extended family, I always. And knowing whatever their situation was, I felt like, okay, at least they're with family. They have people who they can connect with, identify with.Because I know from.From a lot of my friends who have adopted kids who have said, you know, as they get older and they get to a certain age and they start questioning where they come from, and they don't have that connection. And they don't. So I always, in my mind was like, okay, at least they have that.And if they were not, you know, if I felt at least comfortable with the person that they were going to. It's not me, obviously, and not our family, but, like, I know that they were going to be taken care of and they're with people who love them.At least I had peace of mind with that.

Yes, absolutely.

But it was never easy. I mean.

Right, right. What was the longest period of time that you had a child in your home?

I think 18 months.

Oh, wow, That's a long time. Yeah. Can you talk about that one?

That one was a little girl who came to me. She was medically fragile when I got her. She was on oxygen and a heart monitor. She was born premature, and her mom was addicted when she had her.And she was the easiest baby because she had been in the hospital probably for like a month before I even got her, because she was so premature. And so she was just scheduled, you know, like, when you're in the hospital like that, they're so scheduled and regulated. And so she was super sweet.She ended up going to her father, her biological father, who had many, many, many children from many, many different women. That was really, really hard to see because I knew when she went back to him, it was him and his girlfriend.And I knew that wasn't a stable situation. So, you know, I was like, I don't know what. But the funny thing is, we never stayed in touch.But, you know, through this wonderful day and age of social media, I have kept rigorous notes on all of this stuff. So I have people's names and stuff like that, the families.So I just, you know, once in a while I'll do a little research on my own just to peek and see if I can see where the family is at or if the child is. And it gives me a little peace of mind that, you know, okay, that little girl now is 13 years old.And I have seen she has a social media account, and, I mean, I don't follow her, and I don't even, like, stalk her. I looked once and I saw, like, okay, she's okay. She's okay, you know?

Yes. Did Sid. That made you feel better?

Yeah.

Good. During that time. So you had her for 18 months. Were you able to say to the county, the social workers, like, look, she's bonded.She's doing great, or is that just. Doesn't matter because the birth connection is just where it goes. No matter what.

The rule is always family first.

Yeah.

They tell you that in the beginning.And they said, you know, I'll be honest, there were many times with many of my placements, very early on that they said, would you be willing to adopt this child if things don't go the way they're supposed to go? You know, they asked me that question pretty early on, and my husband and I always said, we are open to it.We are open to it, because you just don't know where things are going. You know, I think if it would have gone that way with that child, we probably would have.

Yeah. And did you request to stay in touch or was it easier for you to just be like, you know what? Let's.

I always request to stay in touch.I always tell the people that they're going to, like, if you need me for anything, call me, text me if you're going away for the weekend and you need. Like. I always was tried to be very open. And I mean, I never, fortunately, except for my first situation, the one with. The very first one, that one.There was a boyfriend that was kind of threatening, so I would have not done that with him because, like, there was a. There was one time with him where they.He, like, followed me out of the courthouse and got in his car and literally, like, was physically following me. So I was scared. That was. That was the only time that ever happened.All the other situations, they were just normal people and very varying different degrees of bad situations.

Yeah.

And so I never felt threatened or anything like that. And I could just be honest with them, you know.

Was the. The one that you had for 18 months, was that your last placement? Did you stop after that?

No.

No, no.

Nope.

Okay. Okay.

Trying to remember the order. I think I had two more after that. My last one is the. Is the best story of them all, because I. She's my goddaughter now, and we're very, very close.

Oh, wonderful. She.

She went to another foster family that adopted her, and this foster family I have. I've Given them your information I'm trying to connect you to, but she's just so busy. She has five children that she's adopted from foster care.

Wow.

And two sets of siblings, and then my. My goddaughter.

Wow. Amazing. But she's.

They're just so busy, like.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I can imagine. Yeah.

So she. She was with us for, I want to say, like, six to eight months.And then we slowly transitioned her over to this foster family who I'm still very good friends with, and they adopted her, and she's now 10, so.

And why was that? Can you talk about the circumstances? Why did you have to. Or why did she go to a different foster family?

So at that point, you know, we had had a lot of placements. My kids were a little bit older, and I think. I think we were open to it. But this family. This family was like, they were my respite family.So, like, when we would go on vacation or stuff like that, they would take my kids. So they had. They had formed a bond with her. And at that point, my husband and I had pretty much decided we weren't going to adopt anymore.Like, we were in the mindset of, we have helped all these children by just fostering, and we want to help more children. Like, if we adopt, there's no way I'm going to be able to foster anymore. I'm at my limit of children in my home. Like, there's a lot. A lot to do.And so we decided we wanted to continue fostering. And then I'll tell you what happened from that. But.Okay, so I just asked this foster family casually, like, if they would be interested, and they were like, absolutely. Of course we love her. And so it just ended up. That just ended up being the path. But we are very close. Like, she has some medically.She has some issues medically, and I have been there with them through that, all of that. We take vacations together. It's like, she's still part of our.

Family, and that's beautiful.

That will be that way forever.

Did your children form a bond with her or. They bonded with her.

Yes.

So great. That's amazing. How was it for your other children through this whole. How many years would you say this was? That it spans.

So the span of, like, where we had the most was six years.

Okay. Okay. So that's a significant part of their childhood. I mean, that's. Yeah.

And it's interesting because now they're all young adults out on their own, and they've just started talking to Me about it, where they talk to other people about it, like, oh, our foster siblings and, you know, and they'd never really done that when they were younger because it was just our life. It was what it was.

Right.

The kids just went everywhere with us. Like, we took those foster kids everywhere with us. I always got permission.Like, usually it wasn't a big deal because the parents were not that involved. So the county would just be like, yeah, that's fine. But I mean, we traveled with those kids everywhere. They were just part of our family.It wasn't right.

Yeah.

There was no separation.

And I want to just make the point because I keep hearing this over and over again, how this affects the children, the biological children in the home, in a very positive way many, many times, because it opens their eyes and their minds and their hearts up to, you know, different lives, different needs, different things.

My daughter, we had this conversation. I took her to all those appointments with me, like, to the WIC office, to the Social Security office, to Social Services when we had meetings.She was my oldest one. Probably the younger ones, too, but definitely the oldest one. And, you know, I asked her, I'm like, do you remember that? Like, do you remember?Because it was not always. We were usually with whoever was the biological parents. We'd have to meet up with them or sitting in the WIC office for two hours. Not a great memory.But. But real life. I wanted my kids to realize, like, this is real life and this is, you know. Yeah, I think. I think it did open their eyes.I hope that it was good for my kids.

Yeah. I don't see how it couldn't have been. I. I know that it also could be very difficult, and.And we can talk about that, but I think that there's that thing that is. You really can't even quantify it, how that affects a person to see things that they wouldn't otherwise see, to.To get a glimpse of their own privilege. Right. And see how other people are living, what roads other people travel, all of that stuff. I just think it's. It's wonderful.That is a wonderful side effect. Do you want to talk about any of the negatives? Were there negatives for your children?

I mean, I think sometimes just, you know, the attention thing, because an infant, especially if they have needs, needs a lot of attention. But again, like I said, I just. Since a lot of them were really little, those babies just lived on me.I just, like, wrapped them up and put them on me. And my Zoe is the one who was adopted, the one who's my goddaughter. Her mom just always, like, you bonded that child.Like, I never put that child down. Those babies never were allowed to cry just because I just was like, I need to get that attachment bond going.However it's gonna happen, I'm gonna make it happen. You know, I had those babies strapped on me. They slept on me. They were never away from me. And Zoe's mom says she's attached.You can see that there's, like, no attachment issues for her whatsoever because you gave her that. You know, they say, thank you for doing that. And so with my kids, that's how it was. The baby was just attached to me.And we went to soccer practice, and we went to do whatever. I drove them to school. I was on the pta, and I always had a baby in the stroller or whatever, you know, just so I don't.I try to not make it negative.And if there was something we wanted to do as a family that they wouldn't let us take the baby to, and there were certain things then, you know, I just really worked hard in developing those relationships with other foster families so that they could do the respite for me, and then when they needed me, I would do the respite for them and just.

Mm.

It's a whole community that you really just take advantage of and work with.

How did you get connected to that community? Because that's something that I found I didn't have any of, really. I didn't really have a. It's one of the reasons I started the podcast.When I was going through it, I felt very much alone in it. I had my friends, but none of them were doing what I was doing, and that was difficult. How did you get connected so, I.

Mean, through the county? Well, I did this all in North Carolina.

Mm.

And I mean, it would start with, like, when the first person we needed for respite. That's how you get introduced to another foster family.And then, you know, you just connect and you keep onto that bond and you do you reach out to them or they reach out to you, but they. They have it. They would have events where foster families could get together, where you could meet other foster families.I mean, it wasn't easy, I'll say that. You really have to make that extra effort. You really have to search for it. You know, that's basically how I did it.I also, like, every single person that I knew, because my kids were all in, like, a kindergarten through eighth grade school at the time, and that community, as well, was super super supportive of everything we were doing. And most of those moms would go in and get like their background check so that they could babysit for me.You know, like everybody was just really helpful.

That's great. So you stayed in touch with, with the child, Zoe and. But you still, you, you were still fostering at that point.

So we were fostering at that point. At that point.I think after Zoe went, we like took a deep breath and was just like, we, you know, we decided we were only going to do emergency placements. So we went from long term care to emergency placements, which were not easy either because they're usually like two o' clock in the morning.Can you come down to the hospital and take this child?And usually those cases are a lot sadder, I guess you would say, you know, baby's at the hospital and you need to go pick them up for whatever reason. So those placements were usually like anywhere from 48 to like two to four days. They weren't very long before they.And we didn't get a lot of information on that because we were just an emergency placement.

Right.

So.

Yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. And what made you finally say, okay, I think we're, we're done with this?

So the only thing that made us do that was that we moved.

Okay.

My husband got a job and we needed to move to Arizona and North Carolina said, well, you have to give your license back. You can't even keep your license. You have to like give your license back.

Okay.

And. And then we moved to Arizona. And so then it was like, if we wanted to do it in Arizona, we had to go through the whole training again.And what I decided when we went to Arizona instead is I went and got trained and became a casa, a guardian ad litem. And I did that while we were in Arizona.

Amazing. Can you tell our listeners if they're not familiar with that, what that is?

So a CASA is a court appointed, trying to remember it's a guardian that the court appoints for a foster child. And it's a volunteer.Some places they might pay, but this is a volunteer position and you get trained and basically you, you get assigned a child and you go with that child through the whole process. And they're, while they're in the foster care system.So you, you, you meet with their social workers, you meet with whoever their foster parents are, their biological parents, you go to all the court hearings, all the meetings, and basically you're just another set of eyes and ears and opinion on what you think is best for that foster child that is separate from, you know, family or foster family.

And is it mostly for older children that are in the system or is it for anyone?

Any child? Yeah.

Okay. Because I was. I was wondering. Yeah. Like, we weren't assigned a casa.

Well, there's not many of them. That's the problem. So anybody that wants to do that should look into it.

Yes.

There are not enough of them.

Okay.

It's not a very rewarding thing. I will say. I only did two cases and then I kind of just stepped back. Because you're not the judge.The judges really, really appreciate you and they really want you there. But everybody else in the system is not that friendly about it, including the social workers and the foster parents. They just.They don't take you very seriously. So it was hard because you're really there trying to do something important and, you know, not being taken seriously is kind of hard.

I can see that. Yeah. Were they feeling like you were sort of interjecting in something that you didn't like, know anything out or you were just superfluous? What.What was that?

Yeah, superfluous. Like, it's like, you know, like they like, for a perfect example is the first case that I had was a. Was a baby, a Down syndrome baby.So I was like, I need to be there and I need to be on top of this and make sure this child is being placed in the right place. And the courts, like, within a three month period, they let the foster parents adopt the child legally with nobody contacting me.

Whoa.

Nobody. I was contacted after the fact, which ended up turning out to be a horrible.The foster family ended up like being arrested and stuff for other things with other kids. So it ended up in a horrible thing. But like, yeah, they were.We are not really held as being important and not at the top of the list to call when things happen and important things are happening. And so I just kind of got like pushed under the. Anyway, it was. I was so mad that I was like, I got.I went and I did another case just to make sure that, like. And then it was just so hard, such hard work and sometimes it's just too hard.

Yeah, no, I. I get that. That's so weird with them adopting out a child that, like, were the. The rights.The parental rights were already terminated or like, how did they terminate rights within three months? That usually never happens.

That was the weirdest. That was the whole thing. I don't even know how it happened. It went.It was like a quick adoption and the social worker was like, it was a quick adoption and we just did it quickly because the people who adopted them were one of those families who adopt a lot of special needs kids. I don't know the reasoning for doing it. I'm not gonna say what. What my opinion is on that. But.So their home is kind of almost like a facility, you know, because they have so many kids there that they're taking care of and states paying for them to take care of it.

Yeah.

And it was an infant. I don't know why it happened. I don't know why it happened so fast. I was not happy about it. And.

Yeah. Wow.

Yeah.

So you walked away from it. You said, like, I, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. Did you. Was there any. Did you ever miss it? Like, miss working in this capacity?

Oh, I always miss it. I'm always looking for. I live in Massachusetts now, so I've already started looking at how to be involved here. It's so different in every state.And there's things needed for. I mean, they don't have volunteer casas here or guardian ad items here. They have other things that they want people to volunteer for. But.Yeah, and I've also always thought about possibly going back into foster care and, and doing that now, maybe with older kids.Because now, now that my kids are older, I've been through the experience of teenagers and, you know, yes, back then I didn't have any experience of that, so I was. I wanted younger because I'm like, I don't know what to do with a teenager. But now I've done it all.

So what are some of the other ways that you can help? Because I know a lot of listeners, they're like, well, I want to help, but I don't think I can foster. I'm like, not ready for that.What else can you do in Massachusetts? Have you found out?

Yeah. So they do have teams of volunteers from the community, from all different types of. That they bring in to.I don't know what they call them, an advisory board maybe, where you go in and you just discuss a child's case and what you think. So it's kind of like the guardian ad litem, but you're not directly involved.They just place all the facts in front of you and say, this is what this child. What do you think is in the best interest for this child? So they have that here, which is what I've been looking at.There are also so many ways to just help in foster communities where they have churches or organizations where you can donate things Those items that new foster families need, they can go to this community closet and get X, Y, or Z what they need. There's a lot of places to do that.

Yep. Very important. Yeah, that's great. How do you think this changed you and your life? Like, the trajectory of your life?

I mean, it's life changing, for sure. I just view the world very differently. I really try not to judge anybody because when you see so many walks of life and you really get.You don't just see what this person is. You see where they come from, what they're dealing with.Like all those birth moms, you know, like, when I went into fostering, you know, you have this one thing, this one perceived notion of these babies you're getting from these horrible parents or these horrible moms that can't take care of their children. And that's not how I feel anymore. I go in and I see these women that have a whole story behind their life and their problems.Like, I wouldn't wish on anybody and the child, unfortunately, it's not their fault. So you just. You just view things differently. I don't know how to explain it. It's also. It's hard to explain, but I just really don't judge anymore.And just. If I can help people in any way, I try to help.

Yeah.

I also have learned that I have to, like, limit myself to what I help, too, because I've also become, like, that kind of person who just helps and helps and helps and helps and forgets to take care of myself, so.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I can identify with that.

Yeah, totally.

What about your husband? Did this affect your relationship? Are you still together?

Are you.

How was that for him?

We're still together. It was hard during the time because it was like bringing, you know, bringing another.We had three kids, and three kids was hard, so bringing another kid made it harder. But he's always been very supportive and open, and he just treated it like another child in the family.And I think him being very open in the beginning just. I think we did the right path with not adopting because our family and our kids have been a lot. Like, it is a lot to raise three children.You don't know it until you're doing it and you're going through it, and it still is. My kids are out of the house, and they're. We're still raising our three children. Like, there's still. It's a lot. So I think it was.He was in the right state of mind when he was like, let's just see what happens? And if we would have adopted, it would have been fine, but it's also fine that we didn't.I'm okay with that in my heart, you know, I feel like it's okay because we have a lot going on with our kids.

Right? Yeah. That's really. It's really beautiful. And what a gift. I mean, just what a.What a gift to all the children that were able to be safe with you and loved by you during that time, you know?

Yeah. I feel like we did something important and something special. And even if we never see these children again, I know a piece of my heart is with them.A piece of their heart is with me. And, you know, we talk about them all the time. We have pictures of them in our house. So, you know, that's great.

What advice would you give to anyone who might be interested in doing this now with your hindsight?

So, I mean, the only advice, the biggest thing is like, you just have to really be flexible and open to anything. If you go in with a mindset of this is how I want it to be. Exactly. It's not going to happen. You know, it's really not going to happen.If you're going in just to foster, then just enjoy that child and love that child. And if you're going in for foster, to adopt, because like I said, I know a lot of people who did that, do the same thing. Go in and love that child.Be there for that child. Be ready for anything. Be ready for anything. And accept the family, the craziness that's outside of your family, the family of that child.You just kind of. I think you have to accept that and just go with it and just be open to anything.Because if you're closed off and you don't allow that to be part of your life, it'll be more difficult.

Interesting. What do you mean by allow it to be a part of your life?

So, my friend, the ones who adopted Zoe, like, I've watched them, they have five adopted kids, and they have been so open and connected to the biological family of these kids from day one.Like, I don't know if I would have done that like that, you know, Like, I don't know because I didn't do it, but I don't know if I would have done that. But they have. So watching them, it's been really interesting. And their kids, their kids are far from perfect.They have a lot of issues, but they're just. The conversations that they have. There's no. There's no questions.Like, their kids can come to them, ask them anything, talk about anything, talk about their biological parents. Like I know I would be so uncomfortable and have to get through that and teach myself how to do that.But they have just been so open from day one that it's not an issue. Their kids can talk about it to anybody, to each other, other, to them. And I think for their. That'll be better for their kids in the long run.There's never going to be that question of where do I come from? Or you know, of course, obviously appropriate conversations according to the kids age. But there's no, there's no mystery.

Yeah. You know, incredibly important. A great piece of advice actually. Yeah.There's just so much research showing now that that's just so important, you know, for the children.

Right. Which has changed so much. Right. Since like years.Like I know when I first started looking into it, there was the whole open adoption versus closed adoption. I'm sure that's still, I'm sure that's still out there. But I mean, that's something you really have to think about, right?

Absolutely. Yeah. I think in some, you know, there may be some certain situations where it might be dangerous and in that case maybe that's not a great idea.But other than that, I think it's just. Yeah.It's incredibly important for the children to just know for identities sake, like who they are and what their history is and who they come from and obviously medical and all different kinds of things, so.

Right.

Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah.Is there anything else that you would like to share or that I've missed that I haven't asked about, that you were thinking about that you wanted to share?

I don't know. I mean, no.

If not, no worries.

No, I mean, I just. It's an honor to be on here. I mean, adoption, foster care is so dear to my heart.Like I will be involved with it in some way or form for the rest of my life. It's just, it's just the way it is.And anybody who is involved in it, whether you're, you've adopted or you're fostering, I mean you, you have to be a special kind of person. Like you have to have, you have to be a strong person with a big heart. And I admire, I admire anyone that. That goes this path. I really do.

You know, I don't know about. For you. I never imagined that this would be a part of my life. Like I didn't grow up. I know some people, really.I've talked to a lot of people Actually who've been like, yeah, I always had this feeling that I was gonna foster adopt or something like that. I never really did. And so it's been heart expanding in that capacity for me, certainly. Did you have that when you were. I'm just curious.Did you always kind of think that you would do something like this, or was it totally a new thing for you?

I think deep down I always do like that. For me, like, I don't know where it came from.We don't have that's been adopted or relatives or anything like that, but that's like, I'm just that kind of person. Like, my sister had five kids. They were in the system, and I think that's where it stemmed from. Like, I saw them in the system and I was too young.We're too far apart in age to do anything to help or guardianship like that. But, you know, I just saw what they went through, and I think that's where it stemmed from.

Sure, yeah. Yeah. It's funny, I do remember when I was a little kid, I used to play. I used to pretend that I was an orphan child, like, a lot.Like, I don't know why I always did. I always had this.Like, that was one of my things that I played, you know, and that I had these siblings and we were all parentless and we had to, like, make our way in the world. And, like, I don't know where.

That's Annie, right?

Yeah. Maybe it's that trope. Yeah, that comes up a lot. Yeah. Anyway, it is so lovely to talk to you.Thank you for your work in the world and thank you for taking the time to speak with me today.

Of course, of course.I don't know if I helped at all with what your podcast is about, but I'm glad I could be here and would love to talk to anybody anytime, if you have any questions.

Amazing. Yeah, no, I think you did. I think you did. Because I think just talking about it, that's like the first step is just hearing.And it turns on light bulbs. It's like, oh, I didn't even know that was a thing. Or I've thought of that, but I didn't think anybody else did. Or, you know, it's.You can never really again. You can't quantify, like, what the ripples that this conversation will have.

If you are on the fence about fostering, I say go for it. Because the thing is, like, it's not. There's nothing set in stone.Like, you can do it and you can foster one child and if it's not for you, then it's not for you. Like, but if it is, it will change your life.

Yes, yes. And I love that message, especially because I get a lot of older women that are like, well, I'm too old. Like, I can't do it now because I'm too old.And I'm like, that's not true. No, you can.

Yeah, you can do it. They can do it.

All right, well, thank you so much, Nikki, and so happy to have you here.

Thank you.

This has been the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt, produced by Aquarius Rising. Original music composed by Joe Fulginetti.For more information or to stay in touch, visit From Foster to Forever.com. that's from Foster, the number two Forever.com. and stay connected with us on Instagram at Foster to Forever Podcast.That's Foster, the number two Forever podcast. We'll see you next time.