Foster Care Reality: Trauma, Love & Burnout with Emily Ellet

What was told to me as sort of this is the kids issues and the situation was not accurate. And so what I got was very different from the picture that had been painted for me.

It's the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to adopt. I'm your host, Rachel Fulgenetti.I am so happy to have with me here today a busy award winning audiobook narrator, singer and coach. Her name is Emily Ellett. Welcome, Emily.

Hi. Thanks, Rachel. I'm so excited to be here.

Yeah, I'm really happy to hear your story. And Emily has not adopted, but she did foster.And so I wanted to have Emily on today to talk about foster care, the realities of it, the joys, the challenges, the good, the bad and the ugly. So tell me and tell the listeners how you came to become a foster parent.

Well, that's a really good question. I had sort of been entertaining the idea of fostering for a long time.I've, I've kind of always known I didn't want to have biological kids, but I loved the idea of sort of either adopting or fostering, you know, no real idea what that meant. In fact, my main exposure was this like 1950s b movie called Room for One More with like, I think it was Cary Grant or something.Like, it is so darling and so unrealistic, but it was like really beautiful, right?You see these kids who are really struggling and then they enter this warm family that gives them structure and love and they blossom and they become these wonderful children. And I loved, and I loved the idea of, I mean, I've always been a big person about family and so I love the idea of helping the world in that way.And when I moved here to Denver after living in New York for 10 years, I was able, for the same price I was paying in New York, I was able to, you know, get like a two room apartment by myself. And suddenly I was like, oh my gosh, I could seriously consider fostering.And so I did an informational session with a local foster care organization to listen to what they had and then had to say. And then asking my main question, can you be a foster parent if you live in an apartment? And can you be a foster parent if you are single?Which I was and am. And the answer was, yeah, of course, you know, that's fine.And so I went through the whole process of getting certified and the one part, and it was an extremely thorough certification process. I really like and respect that organization. It was collaborative foster care here in Jefferson county. And they were Fantastic.I just loved working with them. It was, but it was extensive. Right. It's a huge process to get certified.The training and the house visits and the interviewing people and talking to people.And the one thing that we all had minor concern about was my own trauma background potentially getting sort of reactivated by kids with their trauma backgrounds. And so we were very aware of that going in. And the second thing was I didn't have a great support system.Not, not for lack of trying, but just the, the state of my life at that time. I was estranged from some family and I wasn't really sure how that was, was going to work out. So we went in with, with open eyes.We knew that those were issues, but that was sort of how I was interested and then got into fostering.

Yeah. And it, and I will say that, that just going into it, knowing those things is, is incredibly important.I think that some people don't even, you know, that doesn't come up in their training maybe especially if they're not working with an agency.It sounds like you were working with an agency that helped to educate you and kind of identify those things that might be struggles for you or triggers.Sometimes when people go directly through the county, they don't necessarily get that type of insight into the process and what it might reveal or bring out. So. Yeah, that's really good right there. Just going in.So you were saying you, you didn't necessarily have the intention of adopting, you were going in just to foster, but you were open to the possibility of adopting, is that correct?

I was, I was open to it, but also very upfront that I, I, as a single person, I, and, and I don't have family money or anything, is just me. I was like, I just don't know if I would have the funds on my own to support a child. Like, I just don't know if that's a reality.So I was definitely open to long term fostering and I mean, I think if the right kid had come along, perhaps I would have figured out a way to move heaven and earth to make adopting possible. But it was never really on the table, even though I, I wish it could have been.But again, the reality of me as a single, as a single mom and a business owner and working full time is just, it wasn't really possible.

Yeah. In, in a creative field, by the way. So it's not just any business owner, but as a creative.Yeah, that's, it's difficult because income is unpredictable and schedules are unpredictable and that kind of thing. So I can identify with you there. Do you mind telling us, like, what age or around what age you were when this was happening?

Yeah. Okay. So let's see. I began the certification process when in 2021. And I was. Quick math. 35. I was 35. There we go.So I started the certification process at 35. I was not the youngest in sort of the cohort of people that I ended up knowing.Uh, I finished certification at the end of that year and had my first placement October of 2021. So, yeah, when I was 35.

And how did your family. You said you were kind of estranged, so maybe this didn't come into play, but I'm.I'm curious about how family members or close friends, they saw you taking this step and did they. How did they react to that?

Friends were incredibly supportive, at least emotionally. There wasn't much logistic help I got because, you know, the.My friend circle is very scattered and, you know, everyone's working, and several of them have little kids of their own. So there wasn't really. And. And I was very. I intentionally was open to teens specifically.

Okay.

Knew that there was a need, much greater need for teens to be fostered. So. And so I, you know, I. My friends were super supportive when they had parties. She was, you know, like, the kids with me were welcome.And like you now, that was really lovely. My family, they weren't supportive, actually, which was really hard and very unexpected for me.I was really not prepared for what it would feel like to essentially be fighting my family on this. They were constantly trying to encourage me to just give up and let the kid go. And I'm like, no, I'm fighting for this kid. Like, I have. I have.I agreed to do this. And. And yet my family, the ones I was in touch with, were. Were for the most part, very unsupportive, which was awful, actually.

Thank you for sharing that.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm sorry. I think it's more common that maybe than maybe you even.

Really. Okay.

I think it can be absolutely. What do you attribute that to? Do you think they were trying to protect you? Is that where it was coming from?

Yes. I mean, certainly, I think some of it was. They were seeing the stress it was putting on me because the kids I ended up getting.And we can go into that. I loved them very deeply and.

What.

Was told to me as sort of, this is the kids issues, and the situation was not accurate. And so what I got was very different from the picture that had been painted for me. And I think that is extremely common.

I Agree.

Receive kids that either the caseworker doesn't know what's going on or they will gently alter the truth to try to encourage you to take them, which is really, really awful.I had some fellow foster parents who, I mean, you know, you fill out a forum at least with this organization saying like, these are, these are the issues that I can take. And these are the issues that I absolutely have no room for given my family circumstance. And they were.And they would routinely like, try to place kids that, that had things on that no go list. And it's like you're setting everyone up for failure here.

That's right.

And I do get the stress of like, oh my God, these kids, this kid needs a place to go. Like, I do get that.But if you're sending them to a home where someone has specifically said, I cannot handle fecal issues and you send them a kid with fecal issues, it's not going to go well. Like, you're right.

And that is, you know, it doesn't benefit the child or the foster parent at all to do that.

It's so destructive to everyone. And then it, it never works out. Everyone is, is traumatized and it's just really terrible for the family, for the kids.It, it leads to a lot of burnout. So anyway, the kids specifically, the one girl that I had for most of a year.

Yeah. Let's start at the beginning. Was that the first placement?

No.

So talk about your first placement.

So I did respite first as sort of a way to, to break in, which is respite, if, for those who don't know, is just like, basically I am a certified, you know, overnight babysitter for other foster parents. Kids. Right.If they need the child to go to a certified home so that they can just have a break, go on a business trip, like, for whatever reason, it doesn't matter. Respite provides that.And so I was a respite provider and the first girl I had was this absolute angel of like a, a middle schooler who just was really quiet and it was the easiest thing in the world. And like, oh my God, that was adorable. And the. No, I had rest. Actually, I'm mixing the timeline up.The very first kid I had was a potential long term placement and we were very seriously considering her for that.She was a trans girl who was in the juvenile delinquent system, which I think I, I wish someone had explained to me that part of the reason that teens are so hard to place in homes is because most teens that are in the system are also in the juvenile delinquent system and that's why they're in foster care for some reason. And like that, that's a very different picture than just, oh, these poor unloved elder children.Oh no, these are poor, unloved older children because they have some real issues that they may not even want to change.And so, you know, that doesn't change how much I want to love them and give them a stable home, but it does change, change my expectations for how it comes out. So this first girl, she'd been in a homeless shelter. She, she'd left home and you know, had a weird relationship with her, her parents.And I really liked her, I really did. She was delightful. She is the reason that I ended up watch.She, she screamed at me when I was, we were looking at something to watch on Netflix and I confessed I'd never seen Avatar the Last Airbender. And she looks at me and goes, and you call yourself a mille. It was just one of the most delightful moments.But she had some big anger issues which like, I can handle anger issues. But one night she just was absolutely, completely disregarded me.She was vaping in my house, which was a total no go, lying to me, wouldn't let me access, and then got really angry.And I ended up having a really severe trauma response to that, a physical one where I, and I could not get out of the trauma response response in any way until she was placed in a new home. And that, that I, I mean that was my very first placement and I felt awful about that.I had her for about two, three weeks and we were making good progress. She was beginning to trust me.We were starting to work through some of the, you know, issues she had with the, the school and some of these other things. But you know, you go into a trauma response that your body is hijacked, you, you can't get it back. And I just felt terrible.But I was like, no, I'm very clear. Like I, I, this is not going to end until she's gone. And unfortunately that was true. And I kept in touch with her a little bit.She knows that my phone number is always open. We talked a few times as far as I know, you know, she, she was stable in the next home, which is good and I'm happy for her. So that was my first.And then I did two. Yeah, I know, right? Like jumping in.

Yeah. What, what happened when you, so I'm assuming like the next day or whatever. And how old was the child? Just out of curiosity, like 13, 14 or.Okay, a little bit older.

Yeah.

When it happened, like, did you call the next day, the social worker and say, listen, this is like, not going to work out or how did that play out?

Yeah, I had called the helpline overnight, which again, things they don't tell you, at least for my organization, the helpline, it could be 45 minutes to an hour before they call you back. That's not very reassuring, helpful or helpful. Yeah.Especially because usually if you are calling in the middle of the night, it is probably an emergency. Right. But it can take up to an hour to receive a call back. So, like, I spoke with the woman on call several times that night.So there was a record of what was going on. But then, yes, the next morning I called my caseworker and was like, I'm so sorry, but this is the situation.And you know, and there was real pushback from her. Like, no, no, I mean, it'll be. And I was like, it's not fine. Like, I can tell you right now, my body is not okay. I'm not going to be okay.Like, and that's not going to be good for her or me. Yeah, you have to, you have to believe me here. And so they did, they. They came later that day.And I mean, I'm sure that must have been an absolute nightmare for them trying to find someone that immediately. And I, I, you know, grew up a people pleaser, so it is. It was really challenging to override that desire to just make everything easy for everyone.

Yeah.

But in this case, the therapy I had done up to that point stepped in and was like, nope, you yourself, health and safety comes first. And so I did. And, you know, I, I'll always wonder what could have been. But also, it didn't matter because that's what was.And I wasn't sure how she would react.I think the way, I mean, she didn't end up reacting with anything except, I think, shut down and, and disappointment, which was just gut wrenching because, yeah, there was a really good kid in there. So anyway, yeah, it was my first.

Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Did you take some time off after that? Like, okay, I need to regroup. Or were you, like, let me just jump back in.

Well, I still had one of the. I still had that girl. I said for respite, she was still on the calendar. So she came in three weeks later, four weeks later.I don't remember the exact timeline, but a few weeks later she was, she came for respite. And again, she was so easy. Oh, my Gosh, we had such a lovely time. I gave her lots of books.I think it was just a really special week that she and I had together. We went to this wonderful wildlife animal sanctuary near us. Like, it was really special. So, yes, I took some time, but not really.

Right.

Because I was still like, no, I will, I will, I will do better like this. This really matters to me. I really want to make a difference here.So I had that girl and then I had another girl in respite who was somewhere 8th grade, 9th grade, somewhere in there. She seemed really darling. Later she ended up being a permanent placement with a foster parent friend of mine.Oh, that girl had some such severe issues. It was painful to watch, just awful. But none of them manifested with me in respite. So I had two easy respites back to back. And in the meantime.Well, back to back. Ish. In the meantime, I had been broached about this potential long term placement. And it was pitched as.She just, you know, she, she had this, you know, thing with the, the system and she's, she's wants to get back to her family. They want her. So you're just going to be a bridge to help her get acclimated and then go back and live with her family. Right.This is how it was pitched. She doesn't really have any issues. She has this huge family that wants to see her all the time.She probably won't be with you most weekends and even some weeknights she'll stay with them. So she's really invested in growing and moving past her, you know, her mistakes and things like that. Like, I. These kids are the easiest.The kids with sexual assault trauma are the easiest. And I was like, okay, I met her. And the first time I met her, honestly, you were gonna say, oh, well.

I'm sorry, I just have to interject. They said that the, the kids with sexual assault trauma are the easiest.

That's. Yeah. With sexual. Sorry, a sexual assault history.

That was, that was sexual assault assault history. Yeah, that's to her.

And she had done it to others. And I was told that kids were some of the easiest. Okay, yeah, let us laugh.

And I also just want to point out, and this is odd, I'm sure this is obvious to everyone who's listening to you, to me.But just to say that this trauma that these, these kids have, the teenagers, and no matter where they are at, in, in their journey and they're in the juvenile detention center or whatever, through no fault of their own, like, I mean, really, it is. Trauma is Just so severe. And so it just gets in there. And being a teen is difficult enough as it is. Right.We all know it's, like, really, really tough. And so you pile on these. The traumas that they go through. And so I just want to. I know that.We all know that, but I just want to say it because it's like, it can easily become. And I hear on some of the online forums that people are always talking, like, how horrible this kid was. And, you know, and I get that.I know that it can be like that, but I just want to put it out there that it's not through any fault of their own. It's like, this is hard to hold.

Both, you know, at the same time. You're like, this sweet child did not deserve any of the awful things that were done to her.And this child has some major growth that she needs to do. And what. I don't know.I think the hardest thing is that a lot of these kids, they have enough understanding of sort of the therapy model to go, well, bad things happen to me, so I'm a victim forever. Nothing I do is ever my fault. You should pity me. You should. And it's like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, slow down. Like, yes, bad things happen to you.And now, yeah, you get to decide going forward if you keep that with you or grow past it. And I can say this, as someone who had this exact same growth journey, it can be very hard to let go of a victim mentality. It feels very safe.It feels very. You just feel justified in all your actions. And that is really a dangerous place to get stuck.And a lot of adults get stuck in it, and a lot of kids get stuck in it, and a lot of people with trauma get stuck in it. So it's not like you're a bad person, but to.To really, genuinely want to take, sort of take the wheel of your life and be like, no, I'm in control now, and I now am the one responsible for whether I heal or not. I think that that step of taking responsibility and stepping out of victimhood is.I mean, again, I know so many adults that have failed to take that step.

Yeah.

Even when they want to, they cannot get the will. And. And this sweet girl. I had it. You know, there were some really tough diagnoses that it turned out, were not revealed to me initially.

Do you mind sharing the diagnoses or do you. Would you prefer not?

I mean, it's hard because you can't officially diagnose someone with this when they are underage. You cannot officially diagnose someone with borderline personality disorder until they are 18 or older. So there was no official diagnosis.There was a checking of every box, shall we say? And it turned out this was something I had dealt with in. In a relationship in my younger life.And so it turned out I was actually very good at handling that, but at a great cost to myself. And there were so many other factors.So that was a huge one, is suddenly I had this child that would flip from sweet and genuine and wanting to grow and, like, really recognizing, you know, the bigger picture of things to someone whose entire mission was to hurt me as deeply as she could. And there was nothing I could do about that. Like, I mean, I, you know, I can set boundaries. I had. I had clear discipline.And I don't think she was used to someone pushing back, and she both respected that and hated that. Right. The part of her that was really sweet, like, found safety in that she genuinely, like, trusted me.And the part that was the, you know, kind of angry, let me hurt you. Hated having any sort of discipline stricture or, like, pushback.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I was dealing with all of that, not having any idea that that's what I had accepted into my home.

How long did it take you to discover this? Was there? A lot of times people. Okay.Because I was going to say, a lot of people talk about a honeymoon period where when the child first comes in, it's a honeymoon period, everyone's happy, it's wonderful. And then things start to fall apart as.

Not even sure we really had a honeymoon.

Okay.

Like, I mean, she. She was a very, very unhappy person when she came into my home, which, I mean, again, like, rough history.

Right.

Rough history. And as it turned out, really difficult family. They did not want her. Despite telling the department they wanted her.They did not want her back in their home. And they. They kept refusing to take her, and she, you know, so they kept leading her on with, like, yes, we want you. Yes, we want you.And then they wouldn't. They wouldn't take her, and they wouldn't take her, and they wouldn't push back. And. And it was. So I. I basically didn't get a break.I had 247 care of. Of a borderline personality disorder case that was raging in all directions for about a month straight.

Was there any respite available for you at that point?

There was. There was nothing, which was really hard. And I don't remember if that was because. Oh, no, I do remember. It was because of the nature of her case.In the system, there were very few homes that were safe for her, that were certified for her type of offense. And as a result, I had nothing. Nothing. And it was, oh, I'm gonna take a breath, because my whole body got really. It was. It was really hard.And I mean, because of the way the sort of shadow side of her brain worked, she was very comfortable lying. She was very comfortable telling people things that hadn't happened. So I had to document any conflict we had extensively.So, you know, we'd have, like, really intense conflict, and then I would go spend an hour writing it up to make sure that there was a record that was accurate. And, you know, because I. I recognized really quickly that this was someone who would say or do anything to try to get her way.And again, it felt like there were two of her, right? There was the really sweet girl, and then there was this. This much more, almost malevolent side, and they felt like two different people.But I had to care for the sweet girl while protecting myself against the malevolent one at all times. And it was very, very intense, and I don't regret it. We made enormous steps together.And, like, I mean, I was taking her to four different kinds of therapy a week, right? We had so much therapy, including.I managed to find an opportunity to do equine therapy for her for free, which was surprisingly wonderful and challenging at the same time, but I think really good. And, you know, I.

We.

Oh, man. I just. I cared for her so deeply.I genuinely loved her, and I do not regret for one second having her in my home and in my life and working with her to grow and heal. We did make, like, there were tangible differences by the time she left my home.You know, they say that there are kind of three ages for a child in the foster system. There's their physical age, there's their emotional age, and there's their street age. My child, when she came in, was 15 in real age.She was about 7 or 8 in emotional age, and she was, like, 18, 19 in street age, which is a really rough combination. But by the time she left me, I would have clocked her emotional age at closer to 13 or 14. So there was huge growth there. Through gritted teeth.We did it, but we did it. And I think. And, you know, there were other things that were really clear. Like, when she came into my home, I had one of the joys I had created.I had found all of these thrifted books, like, from my childhood that I had loved. And so I had this huge library. And then she Came into my home, and she was like, I hate reading. And I was like, I'm not gonna let that stand.And so I had set up a bunch of, like, ways she could earn money because money was very, very important to her. She wanted to buy things, right? You know, temu. And she. And had her love. And so I set up, you know, a bunch of ways she could earn money.Like, these were chores she could choose to do. Everything was optional, and things were priced differently according to how hard they were and. Or how much I wanted her to do them.So one of the options was, if you read 10 pages of a book, I will pay you a dollar. And I told her when. She's like, are you serious? And I was like, yes.And let me tell you from the start, the more you read, the less it will pay over time, because I am deliberately doing this with the hope of having you fall in love with reading. I said, you can read any book you want. We will go to the library. You can literally get any book you want. I'm not going to judge.I just want you to fall in love with reading.And so, you know, we started with me paying exorbitant rates, and over time, you know, brought it down, which she, of course, you know, at one point was like, what? That's not fair. And I was like, I told you, told you from the beginning. Like, as you fall in love with reading, we're gonna. We're gonna.And by the end that she left, she loved reading. She genuinely loved reading. And I was like, oh, my gosh, it worked.

That's awesome.

Amazing.

How did you. I'm just curious. How did you, like, know that she was reading those 10 pages in the beginning?Like, did you sit there and watch her read the 10 pages, or did she read them out loud? Or how did you know that she was.

You had to give me a second summary.

Okay.

And later on, when it was that when she was getting a little less money for a lot more pages, I very, very much suspected and then was able to prove that she had not actually read those pages. And so we had to have a conversation about, you know, if I find that you're not being truthful with me, this disappears as an option.Like, you know, truthfulness is really important. And so I did check her once in a while. I'd read through the pages and make sure that her synopsis. This was anywhere near what happened.

Right, right.

But in the beginning, at least, it was. She was honest. It was later, near the end, that the dishonesty showed up.And that coincided with her basically trying to do anything she could to get out of my house. She was breaking every rule we had.She was deliberately pushing the buttons that she knew she shouldn't, begging her caseworker behind my back for a different home, which, like, we all talked about. So I knew that this was happening. And, like, I mean, the last two months that she was with me. Huh.That was one of the most traumatic periods of my life. Like, it was. She just. She tried everything. She used suicidal ideation. There was only one time she was in my home that she was genuinely suicidal.And I knew it. I could feel it. As someone who has also dealt with this, I can. I could tell.And, like, we were able to really support her and get under her, and there was never an issue. But the rest of the time, she would use suicidal ideation as a. As a threat. Right.And she would, like, break things and cut herself just trying to get attention. Or, you know, in one case, she wanted her flight. Brain was so intense that she smashed a light bulb, cut her wrists.And then sweet girl came out panicking because she thought she'd cut them too deep, which, you know, there it was. She wasn't genuinely suicidal. She was acting out, and then acted out a little too much.But then when it was clear that she was safe and she would be fine, then she started threatening again. And when it was clear that we weren't taking her seriously, she began to demand that she be taken to a mental health facility.And the caseworker turned to me and was like, I am mandated. If she asks, I have to take her. And it was like, oh, my God, we're just rewarded. And we all knew it. We were rewarding her bad behavior.She spent a week in a mental health ward, came back absolutely unchanged and even more determined to get out of my house. And so finally I made the decision to ask for her to get rehomed during a journaling session I was doing.And I just realized, I've done all I can do here. This child is determined to leave. So, okay, I will let her go, because I've done what I can do. And I was so burned out at that point.My certification worker later told me, emily, you were actually providing a therapy home because you don't have that certification. We couldn't pay you that rate, which is, like, almost two times as much as what I was getting paid. And it was like, that does explain some things.Yeah. Because it was just. It was like, 247 the number of times I had to go pick her up from school because she was in trouble.And the number of times she broke her probation and like, it was just one thing after another. And again, a lot of it, in particular the desire to leave my home had much less to do with me and much more to do with her family.Because all that, like, I'm gonna break all the things and, like, you know, get myself committed and all these things, they all came after her family finally said, we don't want to take her, which, like, oh, my God, I, I, it, I mean, everybody, including this child, knew that that's kind of what was happening. But it doesn't change how painful that must have been for her. And, and it was, you know, the entire time I had her, it was that. Yes.And holding both, holding space for both this poor, poor child. And also, you know, I. It's what I told her over and over. It became almost a mantra, which is, you're feeling. Feelings are valid.Treating other people in that way is not like you feeling hurt, you feeling angry. These things are so real and honest, and I, I don't want you to not feel those, but you can't take them out on me. Which she was extensively.She was very, very abusive, which I know a lot of people are like, a child can't abuse a parent. And I'm like, it's not accurate.

Yeah.

And I mean, it gets, you know, there's a lot of complications there. But it was.I, yeah, I was gonna say she sent me a text message, oh, about a year ago, which I think was probably created and sent in a therapy session with a therapist. But it was lovely to hear if it is all true that she is actually doing really well.She's in college and pursuing, you know, criminology, which I think will be absolutely perfect for her, and that she is conscious now of how difficult she was when she was in my home and how grateful she was.Like, it was this really beautiful note, which I, like, wrote back, like, oh, my gosh, it is so great to hear from you, but I never heard back from her, so I don't know that that was her phone. It might have been a therapist's phone, but still.

Lovely to hear it is. It is. Do you ever think about checking on her, like, via social media or something like that? Has that ever crossed your mind?Like, I wonder how she's doing. Like, I tried.

I've never succeeded in finding anything. Probably because she's not under her real name on social media. Social media was not allowed when she was in my house. It was part of her probation.So, you know, the complex. She has a very complicated history with social media. But I have tried looking for her, and, I mean, she knows my number, and she knows it by heart.I know that she actually called me a few times after she'd moved out, and so I know she knows my number, and I know that she knows because we had a really honest and vulnerable heart to heart right before she moved out, where I said, you can always reach out to me. I will always want to know how you're doing.So she knows that that's available, and that's not really something she's looking for right now, and that's okay. That's her prerogative.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How long in total was she with you?

10 days shy of a year.

Wow.

Yeah, a long time with that particular case. That was a very.

Yeah. In those terms, how long did it take you to recover from. From that experience? Are you still recovering?

No, I think it took me over a year. It was a, like, way longer than I was expecting. You know, I think the immediate burnout recovered within, like, three to four months.But the longer burnout took way longer to want. Like, it. What it did was it completely obliterated my desire and ability to be creative, you know, to.Before that, I'd been, you know, creating YouTube videos of singing, you know, and filming all these things in, like, you know, the beautiful Colorado landscape. And, like, I just had all these ideas that were turning, and even to this day, I just don't have that kind of creative energy. It just.It's much smaller. That got real. It took a big hit, and that took a very long time to recover.Like, I think it took me over a year to want to even think about creating anything artistic again.

Wow.

So, yeah. Yeah, it. It surprised me, actually.And it's so hard because there is still a part of me, very much that would like to return to the foster system, would like to be a resource for these kids. Would like. There was so much. My gosh, seeing her growth, seeing her the connection and the trust and the like, it was so rewarding.And we genuinely do have some really good memories. It's just the proportion of good memories to absolutely horrific memories is a little out of balance. But the good moments were so lovely.And to know that I made a difference in a child's life is one of the most. Not rewarding, but, like, I feel like I did something worthwhile. I would like to return to it.But I also know that as a single person who is a business, you know, in Business as a solopreneur.

Mm.

It's not realistic. I can't. I just don't have. I still don't have the support system.You know, I don't have family that could be like, oh, let me take her for an afternoon or something. My parents never met her. They refused. They did not want to meet her.

Wow.

Oh, it was very painful.

They didn't want to meet her because they didn't think she was going to stay around permanently or just because they didn't think that she was a nice person or like, what. Why didn't they want to meet her? Do you know?

Not fully. I have suspicions that a lot of it was that they just. They did not feel safe around someone with that kind of history, you know, that they.They do have a lot of fear of quote, unquote, the other. And I think there were just too many othering things there. So they never. They found every excuse in the book to not meet her.That's, you know, that's a whole nother story, my relationship with my parents. But yeah, my sister did meet her actually, and she had two kids at the time, two very young kids, and it was a delight.I hadn't seen them in a while and it was a delight. They came over for just a few hours right before they drove back to their home in a different state.And the younger one was just having one of those, you know, lovely tantrum afternoons where nothing could be their needs. And they were just whining and crying the whole time, you know, like a two year old does.

I know.

And I do believe that really made a difference in curing this foster child of her desire to have a baby, you know, as a, as a teenager. At the end of it, she was like, oh my God.

Yeah.

Is that normal? And I was like, yeah, that's really normal for that age. She goes, oh my God, I don't want one. And I was like, hey, oh my God, that's hysterical.That's all she had talked about for months had been, I want to have a baby. I want to have a baby. I want to have a baby when I'm like 17, because my family will take care of it.And I'm like, so she then got to meet these adult. I love my niece and nephew. They're very, very sweet.But it was just one of those afternoons where like, nothing could please the child, you know, as they have.

Yeah.

And that really made an impact on.

Did you ever slash. Do you now think of her as your daughter in some way or like what, what is that relationship for you?Or did, was it never that, like, did it never come to that, that.

She drew a boundary really early.

Okay.

Where I think I had, I, I, we were meeting someone or I was introducing her to someone and I was like, and you know, this is my, my kiddo. And she later absolutely raked me over the coals. You are not my mother. I am not your daughter. Don't you ever refer. Like she laid down the line.I was like, okay, thank you for letting me know. And I then on, I was very clear to only refer to her as my foster kiddo. Right. Okay.

Okay.

I always had to append. Foster on it because she had very strong feelings that I was not to enter that kind of relationship with her. So I was open to it and she wasn't.So I wanted to respect that.

And did she call you Emily or what did she call you?

She called me.

Okay. So after that, except experience. Then you said, I'm not doing this anymore. At least for a while. Like you kind of were just.

Yeah, I took a month. My caseworker was like, take a month and then we'll, we'll, you know, see where you're at. And after a month I was like, I'm it. I can't. I just.

Yeah.

And she was like, I'm really not surprised. So, yeah, totally fine. So I didn't, you know, re up my certification. I let it expire. And.

Yeah. Had you been recording audiobooks during this whole process or like, what were you doing for work during that time?

So. Oh God.In laughable timing, not only was I working full time as a narrator recording, you know, I mean, my God, because of her schedule, it was very hard to get my hours in, but I was still recording a full time schedule. So, you know, I'm trying to think how many hours that was a week.Probably somewhere between 10 finished hours and 15 finished hours a week, depending on the week. And at the same time, I had started the, I had co founded the Hannah the Professional Narrators association.And it was in its infancy and needing a tremendous, tremendous amount of time and effort. I was doing those at the same time. And that was, you know, I just.

Want to say, like, you never know what people are going through. Like, you know, I, I'm sure your close friends knew that, but you know, as a, I'm in the industry and I. How would I know that?You know, it's that, that's so intense. That's really, really intense. And also for listeners who aren't aware of.So 10 to 15 finished hours means that's the recorded length of the audiobook. After all the edits have been made and everything, it's going to take anywhere from double that time to triple or quadruple that time.If you're recording yourself, if there's accents, if it's a difficult book, it really depends. So when she says 10 to 15 hours, it's not just 10 to 15 hours. It's more like 20 to 40 hours, depending on the.

And that doesn't then account for how many hours you then have to put in for administration, for.

Right.

Managing your finances, for sending the emails, for prepping the books for, you know, for troubleshooting when your studio breaks down. Like, there are so many I. To get those finished hours done, you are putting in way more than 40 hours a week. Way more.

Yep. And to be going through something that difficult emotionally.And I speak from experience with this too, because we fostered to adopt both of our children while I was doing audiobooks. And it's really difficult because you have to. When you get in the booth, you gotta.You gotta turn off what's happening or try to turn it off so that you can really bring yourself to this piece of material and do it justice. And it can be really challenging to. To do that. And. And also, like, your voice is so. Everything comes through. So if you're not in a good place.I remember sometimes, like, listening to some of the stuff I did, and I would sound, first of all, so tired. I would listen back to it, be like, oh, my God, I sound so tired. Like, this is not. That's not good. Do you find that, too?And then you hear it and you're like, oh, all right. That sounds pretty good. It's like, you know, matching the tone of the book. And I like it. You know. Do you find that.

I think I have also worked really hard. My musical theater training taught me to take whatever I was feeling and. And either alchemize it. Like, if I am. If I'm nervous, Al.That can be alchemized into excited. Right? You can take that energy and simply, you know, just turn it in a different direction, and it can work for other things.So I do think that a lot of. I mean, the exhaustion was just there, but a lot of the, like, frustration or the. I mean, my God, my body was just in.In constant state of, you know, heightened arousal in. In the worst way. It was very, very stressful. And I do think I was able to take a lot of that and put it into the conflicts that I Was narrating.Remember what all books I did in that period? I tend to do a lot of different genres, but, like, I do remember being able to alchemize some of it and really use it.But, yeah, the exhaustion part that. Yeah, yeah, sometimes it was very hard to narrate really happy romance. Right.

Yeah. I hear you. Did this experience. Did it deepen your own healing in some way? I'm just wondering if.Because it sounds like it was really cheap, triggering on a lot of levels and brought up a lot of stuff. I'm wondering if that also served as a catalyst for your own healing and growth.

Yeah. I can think of one specific moment in therapy where there was a massive step forward as a result of everything. I was dealing.Because in addition to all of this stuff with my kiddo, I was also dealing with my emotionally immature mother acting out. And so, like, to have both at the same time was so special. And. But because of that, you know, I. There was this.There was a lot of talk about this in therapy, and as a result, there was this massive leap forward in one of the sessions that made a significant difference in helping me going forward. So, yeah, okay, there was.There was some real good that came out of it, but there was also a lot of conversations with my therapist and with my certification worker, and we. About. Emily, this is not sustainable. This is not healthy for you. You are not in a good place. Like, you can't do this forever. And that. They were.Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Which I hated. Right, Right. So you wanted to help. Yeah.

And. And you did. And you absolutely did.

I did. I wanted to help more.

Right, Right. Yeah. Do you ever regret the decision to not carry on that relationship? Okay. Yeah.

No, I don't. I.There are very few things in life I regret, and the few that they are are like, I regret telling my dad to wipe the computer and losing all the fanfic I'd written for two years.You know, like, things that I genuinely can't replace, I don't regret, you know, but things like my marriage that ended in divorce and like, you know, fostering and all these, I do not regret them.

I don't.

They're. They're part of what made me who I am. And especially with fostering, I know that I made a difference.I don't know how big, I don't know how lasting, but I know I did something. And. And above all, above even. I got her to love reading or any of the rest. I know that the. The side of her that was a really sweet girl.I know she felt loved, she felt cared for, she felt seen, she felt valued. And God, if that isn't the biggest gift you can give to a child, especially a child that has spent her life being ignored, abused, and maligned.It was. That meant so much. You know, I stuck with it. She asked me several times when she was, you know, coming down from her anger. She's like, why are.Why are you still here? Why do you keep me in your house? And I was like, for this, You. This part of you. This is why I'm still here.And so it made it really difficult to let her go, even though it was destroying me and she did not want to be there. There was nothing I could do to change that, but it was still so hard to. Right.

Do you truly believe that she didn't want to be there, or was it that she wasn't allowing, like, she couldn't allow herself to be loved in this way? Do you think there was something in there like that, or do you think she really.

I think there were a lot of things that play at the same time. One was she had no way to, you know, rage at her family for abandoning her and. And finally admitting that they were abandoning her.And so the only person she had was me. There was also, you know, she. She often would test the thing, test the rules, see how far she could go, see if she could get kicked out.Because there is that narrative in that.That mindset of, like, well, nobody actually loves me, and they're always going to kick me, they're always going to leave me, so if I act out, then I'll be in control of the leaving. And so we fought that the whole time. We fought that the entire time. And so that was a part of it.And I also think that she, you know, as she was sort of hanging out occasionally with other foster children for better and much worse, she was getting fantasies of what it should be that didn't involve, you know, you know, my discipline and my structure and. And some.Like, she had so much freedom, but also once she severely broke the rules, both probation and the house rules, enough that she lost that freedom, which she could have earned back. Like, it's not like it was gone forever, but I think it was just.She then just created a fantasy in her mind of what something else would be and wanted that. And so you had all these different elements fighting at the same time. And I just. I couldn't. I couldn't withstand them.

Yeah, I spoke to them.

I get it. You know, it was failure, and, you know, that's okay.

Yeah.

It didn't feel okay, but it was, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a human being too, and you're not of use to anyone if you are not taking care of yourself. So, yeah, I get that.Is there any advice you would give to the listeners, anyone who might be thinking about traveling down this road?

I think the advice would be really take a good look at those support systems. And I think it would just be get as much information as you can about the realities, which is.I think that's so great that your podcast is shining a light on these realities, because this is something I tell a lot of people that I coach when I give them the information about the industry they're going into, whether it's musical theater or audiobooks. I say I'm giving you all the good and the bad. Not to try to convince you not to do. Do it, but so that you can make an informed decision.Yes, because I didn't get that choice. I didn't get an informed decision. I got partial truth, which, you know, set me up in some ways for failure.And I think if you go in knowing, you know, these things can happen, then you, you know, you are at least prepared as much as anyone can be. No one can prepare to be a parent, least of all of the foster kid. You don't know what you're getting. They don't know who they are.So, you know, but the key things that I think matter are knowing your, your ability. Do you really have time and energy to give this child?You know, I am extremely generous, but There are only 24 hours in a day I have to sleep, I have to work, and I have to be there for this child. And those are going to compete with each other.So if you have a partner like that makes a huge difference, you know, at least in the way that the payments are structured Here in my county, in this, you know, state, it really would make more sense if one parent was almost a stay at home parent. And at that point, then you can have more than one. And financially it makes sense.Sense for someone to be the stay at home parent, but very rarely does one on. I mean, it can work, right? It can work. People I know some foster parents who were single who were, you know, specifically fostering LGBTQ youth.That's a very different set of issues. Right. There is not usually the juvenile delinquent portion. So those often succeed as a single parent.But if you're going into just straight system, doing teens, especially like that, just know your limits. And when they say have a support System that really does matter. People that can, you know, give you some time and give you support.You know, I had some other foster parents that were really. I mean, one set of foster parents, they were a godsend. Right. They had a daughter, a foster daughter who was about the same age, and they would.Eventually they started taking her, you know, occasionally on weekends. I took them on her daughter on weekends a few times. And, like, we were able to sort of give each other time, but, like, it wasn't enough.

Right.

So having family or.Or, you know, a church group or something, like, my God, if somebody had just delivered meals, it would have been, you know, But I didn't even have someone that. That would be like, here, let me give you a lasagna. So, you know, Totally.

Oh, I wish I knew. I would have given you a lasagna. I would have mailed you a lasagna.

And I think that's maybe. That's maybe the most important piece of advice I would give is be honest with the people in your life about what would be helpful.I wasn't clear on that, so I couldn't ask and felt like I should. Shouldn't ask because I was getting paid as a foster parent. But it was like, that money, almost all of it went to her, of course.

Yeah.

The part that didn't go to her went to. I bought a house for her. Like, I became a homeowner. I took on a mortgage for this child to have.

So wait, during that whole time, you also bought a house and moved into it? Oh, God.

Because she was so unhappy with the room in our apartment that I literally bought her a house. And, like, you know, I mean, but anyway, knowing what to ask for, knowing to reach out to people and be like, hey, I'm going into this.Please treat it like, no matter how old this child is, please treat me like you would treat any other new mom. Like, send food. Send. Like, come clean my house. Come just hang out with me. I need people. I need support.And not being afraid to ask for that, which I was. I was very afraid to ask.

Sure.

And you shouldn't be, by all means. And tell people. You know, my friends knew that I was struggling, but even then I made light of it. I don't know. I wish I hadn't.Might have had more help.

I know what you mean.I think it's incredibly difficult to ask for help sometimes, especially when you're a helper, which seems weird and ridiculous, but I really resonate with that too. I have a difficult time asking for what I need or Even knowing what I need or what will be helpful. And I always just feel like, oh, no, I'm.I can handle it. Like, even if it's really hard, like, I can take it. I can handle it. That kind of may be true.

But there's a cost.

Yeah.

And it's burnout.

Yeah. And it also robs people of the opportunity to. To help out, to be involved, to gather as community and. And give back, like I said. And I truly.I mean that. Like, I would have sent you a lasagna. I think you're hitting on something really important is. Is just reaching out to the community and asking. Yeah.Yeah.

Which amazing would have been amazing. Yes.

Right.

And maybe in my future there will be another chance to do this.

Sure.

I don't know my future or anything, but. Right.

And I think it's always, you know, it's just so different depending on the age of the child too. Because by the time they're teenagers, I just think they've had to endure so much and it's. Yeah. It's just worthwhile to point out.Is there anything I missed? Anything else that you want to share or is on your heart to say?

It's a little bit heartbreaking, but there's also beauty in it. And again, no regrets. None.

I really thank you for coming on today. I think it's so valuable to hear all experiences and I really want to thank you for sharing yours. This has been the Foster to Forever podcast.Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt, produced by Aquarius Rising. Original music composed by Joe Fulginetti. For more information or to stay in touch, visit from foster to forever.com.that's fromfoster2forever.com and stay connected with us on Instagram @foster2foreverpodcast. That's foster the number two forever podcast. We'll see you next time.

Sam.