From Cancer Survivor to Mom: Heather Keller's Adoption Journey

Oh, wait a second.

She's the only black child.

And.

And then I was like, okay, well, where are all the black families?

Like, where, you know, it's sort of this like, unawareness that I had until I became a parent of a person of color.

It's the Foster to Forever podcast.

Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt.

I'm your host, Rachel Fulgenetti.

I am so excited to introduce our guest for today, Heather Keller.

She is an actress and a writer and also a Foster to Adopt mom.

So super happy to have you here on the show today, Heather.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

It's nice to be here.

I want to get right into it.

You have, as I understand you have one daughter.

Tell us a little bit about your experience.

How did you decide to foster and how long did that process take?

I was.

I'm a breast cancer survivor and so we were about to start our family and I found, you know, we found breast cancer.

So we made embryos, we did all that.

And I wasn't allowed.

I had to do treatment, which is about 13 months.

And then I wasn't allowed to really have.

Have kids because I had to continue a medication for five years.

And I was allowed to have kids until I was done with that.

So we were like, well, we don't want to wait five more years to start our family, so let's, you know, see what other options are out there.

We looked into, you know, fostering and adopting and also private adoption.

And we also looked into using the, like a surrogate.

And so we kind of looked at everything and we met with someone at an agency called Foster all, which.

She's my like, foster guru, I call her.

And she.

Once we had that meeting, we knew right away.

My husband and I just looked at each other.

We were like, oh my gosh, this is what we want to do.

Is that in LA or where, where is Foster?

La.

It's in Los Angeles, actually.

And so we went through Children's Bureau and so they kind of guided us and we went through, went through Children's Bureau.

We became foster parents.

It took us about.

We took a little longer because I was working, so it was about months.

I was traveling with a show I do.

And so.

So it took a little longer than about nine months actually, the time that it would take to have a child.

And then.

Right, yeah.

And then our daughter came to us.

So.

Yeah.

So I meant to actually introduce the name of your show because I'm so intrigued and I wanna go see this show.

It's called Chemo Barbie, which I just think is like the best name ever.

And like I have to.

When you pass through New York next time, you have to let me know.

Cause I really wanna see the show.

And it's a traveling show, it's a one woman show.

I'm assuming about your experience with breast and surviving breast cancer.

How did you do that and do the fostering process?

Like that just seems so insane to me.

Can you talk about that for a minute?

How did you do that?

The show premiered in 2017 and I had plans to go to the Edinburgh Fringe festival.

It was 2018, so that takes some time to plan and everything.

And in the meantime, our daughter came to us, three and a half months old and it was like March of 2018.

So I knew I had this show coming up, I had this festival.

And so we, we had.

It was a lot of work.

We had to work with the foster care system to leave the country because they don't normally allow a child that's in the system to go anywhere outside of a certain range without permission.

Right.

And she was allowed to leave the country for 10 days.

So that's.

So the foster.

The social worker had to go to the court.

We had to go, you know, to the.

She went, she took care of it.

She took, she went to the court and got permission.

And then anytime we had to leave town, our situation was there.

We had a birth mom in our.

For a year.

Okay.

Who was also in the system.

So we had to okay it with her.

But she would come and go a lot.

So we had to kind of run it by her.

And she was like, okay, yeah.

Do you want to take her to Scotland?

Sure.

Wow.

Yeah.

You know, not to interrupt, but it's funny because I remember when I was going through the process of fostering when we first got my daughter and then we had a wedding in New York.

That's when I was living in LA and we had a wedding in New York like a couple months later.

And I remember being really nervous and scared to ask if we could go and what that was going to be like.

And they were pretty encouraging.

They were actually like, I was surprised, but it makes sense.

They were like, hey, it's great.

It's really great for the child to be able to travel and to have those experiences.

So that, that's interesting that that extends to international travel as well paid work, you know.

And I was there for 30 days and she could only come for 10.

So my husband came separate and you know, you have to fill out things like, we actually.

My producers found a flat apartment right across from a children's hospital in Scott in Edinburgh.

Well, you have to be within a certain amount of.

There's a lot of technicality kind of rules.

But it was doable.

Right, right.

Children's hospitals right there, in case anything happened.

You know, nothing happened.

You have to give them your exact whereabouts and all of that stuff.

And then it's interesting because she wouldn't have had a passport, so.

Right.

So.

Oh, you had to, like, expedite a passport for her.

Yes.

And then if.

If you didn't have her Social Security.

I ran into this a lot with, like, well, I don't have the Social Security number, so, like, how can I get a blah, blah?

It was really confusing.

So.

But you navigated well.

Yes.

And she arrived with a Social Security.

You know, they come to you.

Oh, she did.

Okay.

Because mine didn't.

Yes, weirdly.

Yeah.

I don't know how you navigate that.

I think.

I think they.

The court.

Well, so what.

Basically, what the.

When I got the paperwork, it was.

I had to go to get, like, her birth certificate and the paperwork.

It was a court order.

So a court order kind of just null and voids everything.

Like, they look at them.

Oh, I have to do it.

You know, I have to give her this.

And.

Yeah, so, yeah, it was.

It's.

It's.

It's extra work.

They suggested respite care.

I don't know if people know what that is, where, like, you leave the child with another foster family for a little while while you're on vacation or whatever.

And I was like, no, this is our child.

No way.

Stay with us.

That's right.

And was that difficult?

I.

I'm a.

I was an actor before I became a voice actor and audiobook narrator.

So I'm just thinking about what it takes to do a show live and then having this other thing in your personal life that is just so big there, having this baby.

I mean, that just must have been a lot to hold at one time.

Like, how did it go in.

In Edinburgh?

It was great.

It was a lot.

My husband was there, and he took off of work for that amount of time, and my mother, who had never traveled internationally, decided she was going to come.

And it was.

The show had been around for over a year.

It was the first time she saw my show.

So she saw it in the.

In the festival there.

Oh, she was able to kind of watch in the evenings if we had.

I had, you know, different commitments to do in the evening.

And so she would Watch.

She watched her.

Yes.

And.

But it's a lot.

It is a lot, you know.

Right.

I have photos of her backstage with me.

I was actually doing another show at the time too.

I was doing a.

A children's show, which was a union show when she first came to our house.

And so I was like, oh, we got a call.

I told the cast.

So one day I was not a parent, and then the next day I show up and I got like a baby with me.

And the producers sat with her in the back and she fell asleep.

Luckily, it was a short show.

It was like an hour because it was a kid show.

She just fell asleep.

I dressed her up in a big fancy.

Like, I was like, this is her first time at the theater with a giant poofy dress.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

It's a lot.

I mean, you know, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

Was she coming to you with any sort of special needs or, you know, what.

What had her experience been for the three and a half months before she was with you?

All of that stuff.

So she was born early, a preemie, very early, 29 week preemie.

And so she was in the NICU for six weeks.

She was released to her birth mother, who, you know, there wasn't.

She was able to be released.

A birth mom.

And so she left the hospital with her.

And then she was a kid just kind of traveling around town, hanging out.

And then she was in a group home with her.

You know, she was a teenager.

And then she ended up.

She came to us and so, yeah, it was kind of.

I'm actually writing another show called Parentified that has this kind of a scene.

It's not.

But it's similar to story when a child arrives at the house.

So she arrived in a tiny little.

She was only like eight pounds at three and a half months.

And she arrived with just a social worker that was the driver.

You know, they're just a driver, kids.

And so she showed up with like a paperwork and a little bag of her.

There were like five hats.

You know, like, there were hats and like just a few items in a diaper bag.

And that's.

It was hard.

It was hard to kind of.

You don't know a lot.

You know, you're not sure.

Is this child going to stay with you?

Is this child going to go.

But.

And then.

Yeah, we didn't.

You know, it's challenging.

Was your family on board?

Your.

Your family and your friends, your community, essentially?

It sounds like they may have been on board with.

It was There any hesitation on anybody's part, or was it like, okay, we're gonna support you, you're doing this and that kind of thing?

Uh, no, there was no.

There was no hesitation.

My dad did say something at one point, kind of like, well, you know, DNA goes a long way, you know, And I was like, I don't really know what you mean by that, but okay.

But after that, they just.

They actually, in Scotland was the first time that my mom had met her.

So they were supportive.

Everyone was fairly pretty supportive.

Like, we had friends that came over that night that she arrived and they wanted to meet her and they showed us how to swaddle, you know, just things like that.

So I had friends that I said I was like.

I said I was doing a show at the time, so my friends would meet me at the theater sometimes and just watch her, you know, walk her and stuff while I performed.

And.

And then.

So I had a good.

In the.

In the very beginning, it was very.

It was.

It's.

It's always been very supportive, actually.

And, you know, the support comes from places you just don't.

Didn't know it would come from.

Did you find that with you?

Yes, I did.

In fact, like, people, certain people, this is.

Was just my experience.

Like, people.

A couple people that I wasn't even really that close with really showed up and were just like, all right, like, let me help you.

Let me hold the baby.

Let me come over and like, bring you Starbucks and like, whatever.

And then people I was closer to were still really supportive, but maybe not as like, there.

And I think the difference was, I think all the people that really showed up are the people who already had kids because they got it.

They were just like, this is huge.

Like, I have to help this poor woman.

Like, you know, in the first, like in the early times.

So that.

That was my experience.

You know, it's just like, if you are a mom already, you know what that's like.

It's just so consuming at the beginning and to not have any lead time or much lead time, and you don't even know who you're going to be welcoming into your home, what age that child is going to be.

And then suddenly they're just there and it's all consuming.

Who.

What was your experience?

It was similar.

It was kind of like people showed up with bags of clothing.

They're like, oh, my God, I need to get rid of.

I have eight bag bags here.

There's one of onesies, you know, and.

And justice.

And there was this.

A woman Who.

Single mom who adopted.

Private adoption, though.

And she had tried for years and all that.

And so she showed her clothing were.

They were dresses with.

Matching.

Like, everything matched.

You know, it was all like, yeah, together.

So nice.

And yeah, people like my friends that came over that night, like, they had two kids.

No one.

But she was pregnant and had one, so they knew.

They're like, this is a lot.

You know, this is what you're gonna do.

We called them actually from the aisle of Target because we were like, we.

You know, you're as prepared as you can be.

You know, you have the crib set up, but, you know, baby doesn't really use a crib right away.

You didn't know what age you're gonna get.

You just don't know.

And so we had 0 to 3 written down.

And we got a.

Right.

She was a preemie, though, so she was really only like, she was three and a half months, but she was really equal to, like, a month old.

So they.

Right.

You know, they showed up and they're.

We were calling them from Target.

Like, Brian and I are like, what bottles do we get?

I've.

I have no idea.

Like, she's so small.

Like, what diapers?

She's only eight pounds.

Like, we had to get, like, the tiny little diapers, you know?

So we called the people that we called.

We were like, oh, and part of them, you know, why breastfed.

I was like, well, okay.

Like, but you want this kind of a nipple.

And, you know, I know you want this.

And my other friend did.

Yeah, you got.

And then they came over that night and they were like, this is how you swaddle.

And the first time we swaddled her, she was asleep.

She just, like, seemed like she was finally safe, you know?

Like, yeah.

Oh, yeah, I can relax, right?

Yeah.

That.

Both of my children loved also being swaddled.

They loved it.

Yep, yep, yep.

I remember I had.

I had a friend.

Friends that were a gay male couple who had adopted, and they were like, oh, my God, the one thing you have to get is a formula dispenser.

I can't remember what it's called now.

It's like a particular brand or whatever, but.

And I was like, what?

I don't need that.

Like, what do you mean?

I'm not gonna need that.

And they were like, no, you need that.

Like, you need it because you don't wanna be sitting there trying to, like, warm up the bottle to the right temperature and this and that and whatever.

And for my first child, I did not get it?

And you better believe the second time around, I was like, oh, my God, I'm getting the freaking dispenser, like, for the formula.

And it was like so good.

You just set it to whatever formula it is.

And you know, like, it's.

You know, you set that.

There's like a little.

I don't even know how to discard it.

And it pretty much does.

It's like a coffee maker, but it's a formula maker, you know, so you can clean it from time to time.

But it's fantastic.

That and the Snoop.

Did you do.

Did they have snoo at that point?

Because that was the other thing for me, that was like a game changer with baby number two.

I didn't do it.

We didn't even know about it for my daughter, but for my son, I've heard that.

And for anybody who.

Yeah, for people who don't know what it is, the snoo is like, it's an automatic rocker, like a bassinet that rocks the child automatically.

And so for my daughter, it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

Cause she was a really good sleeper for the most part.

But man, with my son, he had colic and he would just cry all the time.

And I was like, so grateful for this new.

So grateful.

And I felt a little bit guilty because I'm like, oh, is it should be me.

But also like, I need sleep and this child needs sleep.

So let's.

Yeah, so those were my two big things.

We didn't have that.

My friends had that.

They were a couple years after me.

But we had the rock and play, which has now been recalled.

Do you remember that?

Yes, I do.

And I've heard that it has been recalled, so.

But we use that.

And she.

She loved that we put her in there.

It was just like out.

And she was a.

She was a really good sleeper.

Well, the first.

When she first came to us, she was.

Had like, she was awake 12 to to 6am Those were just her awake hours.

Oh, God.

You know, it's her birth mom.

And.

And so it took about a week and a half, two weeks, which is fast, to just get her to go to sleep during that.

Is fast.

Yeah.

So she was.

That was.

I would remember just being like, put her in the rock and play and please fall asleep.

She slept a lot.

She was malnourished and things, so she needed sleeping.

So you did visitations, you had visits with the birth mom.

And how did those go?

Because another thing for me is that we never did visits.

We didn't have the birth parents.

My daughter's birth parents were sort of MIA and missing, and my son was a safe surrender, so we.

We never did the visit thing.

So I'm curious to hear about how the visits went.

What was that like?

Cause I know that's a huge part of it that we didn't experience.

We had.

So I said birth mom was underage and a foster child, too, so she.

We had a lot of visits for the first year, and now, you know, she would come and go because she was a teenager and so disappears.

Then we wouldn't have visits, and.

And.

And then she'd appear again.

Then we'd have to immediately, you know, get visits back on track.

She was also, you know, in the system, so.

So that she was.

She's.

I.

I kind of just want to take both of them.

You know, I kind of be like, yeah, totally.

I could see that.

You know, there's lots.

Was she with a foster family herself, The.

The.

The mom?

No, she was in a group.

Group homes.

Okay.

I don't know if you know much about group homes, but there's a thing called awoling where they leave and then they lose their bed, and it's basically they've disappeared, and.

And then they'll come back, and then, you know, they go away for a while, hang out with friends, or at least she had some family, and then they come back, and then, you know, services are always provided.

They.

They kind of.

At that age, they kind of know, like, if I come back, I'll get my whatever I need.

Right.

And now I've run out of whatever.

My bus passes expired or something, you know, and I got to go back for a little bit.

And then they'll leave again.

And Summer, they tend to leave.

You know, it's just.

There's a pattern to it, which we discovered.

We.

We didn't know.

It was kind of a learning curve, but we did.

We did have almost a year, and then we were TPR'd.

And then.

Okay.

And.

And then after that, she was kind of.

She was gone.

Yeah.

TPR is Parental Termination of Parental Rights for.

For listeners.

Yeah.

We did go to the court hearings and things just to show that, like, you know, our daughter was in a safe place.

We're here.

Sure.

You know, and to answer any questions, if the judge had any questions.

And the judge would just kind of like, oh, thank you for coming.

We really appreciate what you're doing.

You know, they grateful for us being there and showing support, because you're not only showing support for the child.

In your placement and care, but you're also showing support for the system and you're also showing support for the birth parent.

You know, there's a lot you kind of.

You're doing this to help ultimately reunify.

And our situation was, you know, we, of course, we wanted to adopt, but Also now I'm 8 years now removed from cancer.

I'm cancer free.

But at the time when you're in that situation and you've just finished, like, hardcore treatment and like, I had chemo and I had radiation and I had Moxifen and all this stuff, your brain always goes, oh, gosh, there's.

Oh, I could die.

And if I die, you know, and I'm not, I'm fine.

And yeah, the stats were totally like, you basically 100% curate, you know, they.

Because of.

Yeah, but you still have that in your head.

And for me, it was like, and I don't mean to be dramatic or sound dramatic, but it was like, well, I wanted the chance to be a parent.

This is my chance.

And if she reunifies, then at least I had a moment where I was a mom before I die, you know, like, I'm just like, yeah, I wasn't going to die.

And I mean, we all are, but you know what I'm saying?

Like, am I being.

Am I being too dramatic?

I don't know.

No.

Yeah, I don't think you are at all.

I totally get that.

Like, I totally get that.

We were there to, like, support.

Right.

If she reunifies, at least we had the chance to be parents.

Sure.

And yeah, but.

And to do something really awesome for.

Yeah, yeah.

When did you know that it was looking like adoption was like, okay, this is gonna go forward.

And then how long did it take from there to finalization?

There were signs along the whole, you know, now looking back when she was tpr, that's obviously like, okay, you know, then it's definitely adoption.

But my foster person at foster, all foster, Nadia Polonice is her name.

She's amazing.

She's my foster guru.

And the whole time she was like, just love on that child.

They had this.

It's very hard when it's a teenager in the system because they have a lot to do to overcome and get a child back.

And so, right.

You know, looking back, there were signs not too personal, like, about her story and my dog.

But I could tell kind of now I know going in.

Okay, that was a sign.

This was a sign.

Oh, she's disappearing.

This is not going to look good, you know, for Revocation and just certain things that were happening in the group home and stuff.

So.

Yeah.

Have you been able to maintain a relationship with her or.

No, no, she.

She was a little dangerous, so we couldn't.

It was the safety reason.

And she did reach out once on our daughter's fourth birthday through my.

She found my show and then reached out through the show's website and.

And then I just responded, you know, she said, please wish her a happy birthday, Michelle, because you just.

It's unfortunate that.

That this is, you know, with mustering is bittersweet.

You know, you're like, oh, someone lost out.

And so, yeah, I reached out and I said.

Or she reached out and I responded.

And then, you know, I said, I'll definitely wish her a happy birthday.

And I did.

And this is what, you know, she said.

And she said, thank you so much for saying happy birthday to me.

And then that's.

At the time she was four.

And then she asked for photos, and I was like, that's kind of our.

Our cut off because I know they'll end up online respond.

So then we haven't heard from her.

Okay.

Yeah, but it is hard.

It's hard because it is.

I don't know.

Do you find that a little bit like fostering is?

I do.

I mean, so much of what you're saying.

Yeah, 100%.

Like they said to us right in the beginning of our classes for fostering, they said something that always really struck me, and they said, you know, you have to remember that this thing you're embarking on, it starts with a tragedy, it starts with a loss.

So that's what you're going into.

And for you, it might be a gain, but you have to remember that this child has had a loss and the birth family has had a loss, and so it's just such a delicate, delicate dance and situation.

And I mean, I just.

Yeah, I relate to you.

I relate to what you were saying about also wishing that you could help the birth mom.

Because I often thought, my God, like, this poor kid.

My daughter's birth mom was also in the system.

And, you know, it's this cycle, this generational thing.

And I thought, my God, I don't know what would happen if she ever came and, like, wanted help or wanted to be involved, like I would want.

I have love in my heart for her.

Like, she birthed my child.

And, like, I will never, ever forget that amazing gift that she's given us and this amazing person that she brought into the world.

And yeah, it is.

It's really hard.

But also, you have to keep your child safe.

And you.

You know, we haven't had any contact with her family.

With my son, he was a safe surrender, as I said.

So we have no.

No idea.

Which is another whole thing that is really challenging in a different way, especially as he gets older and, you know, has questions, we're not gonna be able to provide him answers, which is difficult.

But with my daughter, we have maintained a connection with one of her uncles, so her birth father's brother, who is just the nicest, sweetest man.

And we made contact initially when we were fostering, and he gave us his blessing.

It was the only sort of viable family that she could have gone to in the birth family.

And he wasn't available for that.

They had another child, and they just couldn't take it on.

And so we had a conversation, and he was like, you know, do.

Do you want her?

And I was like, are you kidding me?

Like, yes.

Like, we love her.

We want to.

We want her.

She had probably been with us about, I want to say, maybe nine months or something.

So it was, like, a long time.

And we were like, yes, we love her.

And that was really frightening for us.

But also, it's like, you know, this is her birth family.

And so he just said, you know, we just want you to know.

We want Izzy to know that she has an uncle and an aunt and a cousin who love her very much.

And, you know, and I was just like, ugh.

And we've stayed in touch, and I kind of lost touch for a little bit because I was just dealing with the fostering situation, and it was exhausting and all of the stuff.

But we've since reconnected, and he sent her a birthday gift this year, and I'm so grateful.

Like, I really.

When she gets older, I would love for them to be able to meet and, like, have relations and all that.

I'm the same way as you in terms of, like, I'm sort of in the public eye, so there's no real hiding my whereabouts or yours.

You know what I mean?

Like, we're kind of, like, out there.

You can find us online.

So that is a little bit concerning sometimes of just like, you don't know.

You don't know who's gonna track you down or whatever.

But I have to just trust that it's all going to be okay and we'll handle whatever comes up.

Yeah.

And, you know, I.

I really do care about the birth mom, and, you know, and so we.

We had a really good rapport.

You know, for what it could be.

And it is hard, but.

Yeah, you have to kind of.

Yeah.

I mean, when.

Anytime I have a show, I'm like, you know, could she be showing up?

Right.

Like he was in the audience.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, you hope.

Yeah, Yeah.

I feel like my daughter's gonna want to know and am I going to be driving her to a visit with her, you know, and show up or will she not?

And then there's.

Right.

You know, this.

So.

So it is, it's kind of.

Yeah, it is.

That goes back to that kind of bittersweet of like, you're taking on this.

Your family has been created, you're so grateful for it.

But at the same time, yes, it's.

There's things about it that other families that are, you know, however typical.

I don't know how you want to describe it.

Don't.

Traditional.

Yeah.

Maybe drive your child to a visit with their birth parent when they're 18.

Right.

Or whatever.

You know.

That's right.

Yeah, it is, it's.

It's a unique situation.

It will always be there.

Like, it will just always be there.

You know, I'm aware, as I'm sure you are, of prenatal trauma and birth trauma and all of that.

So that trauma is always gonna kind of be there and we can work through it as it comes up and you just do the best you can.

And I always like to remind myself that, you know, every family has their stuff.

Every family has their stuff that they have to manage and navigate.

And this is a part of our stuff.

Right?

It's just a part of it, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And like you said, being in the public eye is a little challenging.

And you also, you know, we were at, we, we just saw our family.

We flew back east over the summer and visited family and they're, you know, it's great and it's lovely and it's.

We had a really great time, but things come up, you know, like my daughter said in front of like my mother and my, my sister in law, like, well, yeah, you know, you don't have to birth a baby to be a mom.

And like she's, you know.

Right.

But like, I love it has never.

It's not something that like.

And my mom was fine with it, my sister in law was fine with it, but it's not on their radar is really what it is.

Sure.

Yeah.

I love that though, how amazing that it is on, on your daughter's radar.

That's so cool.

You know, I love that.

I I.

That brings me to something I would love to talk more about or talk about, which is the transracial piece.

Yes.

As I understand it, yours is a transracial family, so is mine.

And so navigating that.

I'm very curious always to hear how you're navigating that.

What has come up for you around that and that kind of thing.

You know, I went into it, like.

Kind of like you fill out all this paperwork, you're like, oh, I want.

Oh, any baby.

Of course he's a baby.

You know, I care, you know, and I'm, you know, a Caucasian, white, whatever.

He wants a woman.

And, you know, this sort of, I guess you could say, white privilege veil that I had.

And I was like, of course, you know, I don't care.

And.

And then we.

She.

She's.

She's.

Our daughter's black.

And, you know, I didn't think anything of it until things started happening, and I was like, what?

Like, I went out for a run when.

When Summer Runner.

So she first.

When she first came to us, it was like, I don't know, maybe.

Maybe the second week or so, and a woman leans over and she looks and she goes, oh, is your husband dark?

Wow.

Right?

Is it your business?

Or.

You know, and.

Yeah, that's so weird that somebody would.

Say that, but, you know, experiences that, you know, I.

We put her in school, and I.

Was like, oh, wait a second, she's.

The only black child.

And.

And then I was like, okay, well, where are all the black families?

Like, where.

You know, it's sort of this, like, unawareness that I had until I became a parent of a person of color.

And.

What part of LA are you in?

So we're in a very.

We're in east la, so it's a very.

Okay.

Segregated.

And a school that just wasn't working.

And she was, you know, she said to me, well, she had a concert and.

Go ahead.

What were you gonna say?

Well, I was just gonna say, when you say segregated, just for people who aren't familiar with la, and.

You know what I mean?

Like, what is right now, too?

It's like.

So.

There's a lot of.

So traditionally, it's been a Hispanic area, right?

Like, very, very Latino area.

And then.

But then there's a lot of gentrification and there's a lot of white people who have come in and.

Is that what you're referring to?

Yes.

And then.

And then African Americans are.

I found LA to be so segregated in terms of, like, black and white.

It was like, Astonishing to me that a big city like LA would be like that.

And I have to be honest, since we moved back to New York, I'm originally from New York and we moved here a year ago.

And I am so relieved just to like be in.

It's just very mixed.

There's.

It's much, much more of a mixed situation.

Well, I grew up in New York too, and so I'm.

And I did a bunch of, you know, theater in the city and it's just very mixed.

And so when I moved here, I was like, this is.

I didn't really know.

I guess I didn't notice it as much until I became a parent and then I was like.

Right.

You know, but it is very segregated and yeah.

Where we are, we're east la and one area, you know, it was one of the last places to stop redlining.

So.

Wait, what's redlining?

It's like black people couldn't buy in this neighborhood.

Oh, okay.

Sorry, I just wasn't familiar with the term.

So it's one of the last neighborhoods.

Wow.

So it's taken a long time for it to get more mixed, but it's, it's slowly happening, but.

But it won't be until like my daughter's older, you know.

But anyway, we, we found pockets.

So East LA is not.

It's very.

Yeah, like you said that Latino.

And so we found West LA is more.

But it's kind of far to go for school.

So Pasadena, Altadena area is.

Has a lot.

It's more mixed there.

So we had to figure that out.

And now she.

We tend to do a lot in that area or West LA or, you know, just.

It's very sure.

Fifth segregated school district in the country.

New York, Manhattan is the second.

So.

Really.

Yeah.

Even though it's mixed, it's school wise, it's very segregated.

So we're at a school now where it's.

It's I.

Diverse in her direction.

You know, her previous school was very, you know, she was not.

And.

And she noticed it.

She notices these things.

Sure.

Talk about it how not all families look alike.

It's just that our family looks this way and you know, and you don't have to birth a baby to be a parent, you know.

Yeah, you can have different colors in every family and you know, I guess you could say a rainbow family.

And so it's, it's definitely, you know, I went, I toured 14 schools before we.

Where we ended up where we are at.

I would do head counts in the classrooms and be like how many kids, how diverse is in her direction.

And some of the schools just would not work.

So it's.

Right.

It's definitely tricky and challenging.

And so the principals will be like, why?

Why is this white woman asking how many black kids in the school?

Right.

Transracial family.

A lot of people don't even know what that means, you know?

Right, yeah, yeah, I know.

I was just talking with somebody else, another foster to adopt mom, and we were talking about just how unfortunate it is that a lot of the schools that are, like, maybe say, predominantly black are.

They're not performing as high as the white schools.

And that is the racism in our country that is just there.

It's not always the case, but it is a lot.

And how difficult that is, a decision on a person, personal level about what is the most important thing.

And, like, what do you do in those situations?

Like, do you put them in a school that's maybe not performing as well but has a large black population?

Or do you put them in a different school that doesn't have as much of a larger black population but is, like, performing well and then supplement with other things?

You know, it is like a conundrum.

It is.

And some people would say, probably, well, no, it's not.

You need to put that child in a black school with black teachers and black.

And I get that.

I do.

I'm so aware of it.

And also, it's like.

But I also want my child to, like, have a really good education.

So how do we make that work?

Well, yeah, you know, when they're younger, while we were trying to figure out, like, where are other people that look like her?

Because, yeah, I'm walking the street, going down to my local restaurant, and it's not here and it's not there, and it's.

So I contacted a really great organization that's within lausd, and they said it's called Black Student Appreciation Project, and they help black students thrive within the district.

And so we went over school after school, after school over more than 30 schools in this area.

And, you know, the most.

Oh, that's great.

Schools was 768 kids, and they had 10 black students.

So it just goes to.

And that was the only school like the other schools, Right.

Or one.

And so we enrolled her in a dance class that was Debbie Allen Dance Academy.

We show up, and she's standing online, and I'm like, oh, boy.

Because she starts saying, mom, look, that person has beautiful brown skin like me.

Mom, that person does, too.

And it was like, all these.

Because it's predominantly a black dance studio.

And I wanted to like, cry because I'm like, oh my God, my poor child has been missing this.

And like, oh, I found a place that she can thrive and see other people and be with people that look like her.

Yeah, yeah.

It's really like we did it in.

You know, that was like the beginning of like, okay, this.

And that was like the age of three.

And then, you know.

Well, we also had the pandemic thrown in there, so we couldn't really go anywhere.

Things were closed.

Was so.

Right.

Yeah.

She notices.

She was.

She said, you know, mom, when I looked out at the audience, it made me really sad to only see one beautiful.

She's.

She's.

This is her words.

One beautiful brown skinned human.

And the rest are all.

Everyone else was peach because.

And so I was like, where, you know, it just.

Wow.

And you had never talked to her about race?

We haven't.

Like, she just came up with that or you have like.

Yes, we always.

Well, as a baby, we would refer to her skin.

We'd lotion her, put lotion and oil on everything.

We say beautiful brown skin.

Just so she, you know.

Yeah.

It was told to do this and it wasn't just like, you know, like just a positive thing.

Because it is positive.

It's.

It's.

She's gorgeous, you know, and so absolutely.

How do I, how do we make her proud of that?

And so that was one of the things you had a song we would sing.

Like, you know, we're lotioning up your beautiful brown skin.

Like, I don't know, maybe this is totally inappropriate like to talk about, but these are the things that you're.

You kind of.

No, I don't think it's inappropriate at all.

I think it's something that needs to be talked about more because especially as white people potentially adopting people of color, like, we need to know, we need to learn how to do black hair.

We need to take our children to black barbershops.

Like, all of that stuff is like, we, we need to talk.

So we sought that out.

When you go to a place, it's really great.

It's in Englewood.

I love Lulu Hair Cafe.

And yeah, we bring her there.

And.

And I've learned how to take care.

You know, you have to learn how to take care of black hair.

It's.

It is different.

And from what I grew up with.

One of the biggest actual compliments I received was her principal is a black man and he called me about something unrelated.

And then he goes by the way who did her hair?

And I was like, oh no, oh no, oh no.

Because people will talk to you like her.

Right?

So.

And he goes, I just want you to know that you did a great job.

He goes, those.

I did bantu knots because we were in between visits, you know.

And he goes, that.

Yeah.

He said, you didn't grow up.

Oh, that's awesome.

You don't.

You had to learn that.

And I was like, yeah.

He's like, that's, that's.

I'm.

I have respect for that learning that you learned that.

What to use, how to brush it, how to put it into a bantu knot and all this.

So there is a learning curve.

That's great.

And you just kind of.

I felt like I have to like kind of humble myself and be like, ask for help.

I ask, right.

What were the resources?

Yeah.

I was gonna say, did you, you asked your hairdresser or her hairdresser, did you watch videos online or something?

That's what we did.

We watched like a lot of videos online.

Like all the stuff following, you know, a black haired dresser online who does actual education of, of white parents who adopt black kids.

It's really important.

And it's not everyone has different hair types.

So like my hair is different than your hair.

Right?

You know, like totally like, oh, my daughter's curl pattern is this.

And this is what works.

And I'll ask like, oh, what oils?

And they'll make oils for her.

Like a group of, you know, different oils together.

So I can spray, right?

You have to water it first, like get it water, you know, follicles.

So do you think you will have more children or how.

How old is, is she now?

So she is six.

And you know, it was a hard journey for us.

And then we adopted right before the pandemic.

So two weeks.

She was one of the last adoptions the court did before everything shut down.

And so we, everything was kind of crazy at that time, right?

Within the system.

Yeah.

And so it took forever to get like her papers and just everything was.

You know, was it in court or was it online?

It was in court.

In court.

Yeah.

That's because I've talked to a lot of people since ours were in court as well.

But like I've heard talk to other people who had to finalize online and I was like, oh, that must have been such a, like a.

Anticlimactic in, in a way, you know, because you.

I just kept dreaming of that day when we were going to be in that courtroom and the judge bangs the Gavel.

And it's like, we're a family.

I just.

That was such a touchstone for me.

The whole time was, like, just envisioning that.

So you were in la?

In la?

Yup.

Edelman Children's Court.

Yep.

Yep.

We went to every court date.

I went to every court date.

And, you know, most of them were just terrifying and so hard.

And then when we came in for the finalization for the adoption, it was like a spontaneous healing.

It was this incredible, incredible experience for us because suddenly it was like, me and my husband and obviously Izzy.

This is for my daughter.

And then, like, all of our friends and our people were there, and it just felt.

All the other times that I went there by myself with my heart and my throat, you know, just not sure what was gonna happen, what am I gonna learn, what.

You know, and then to just be there and just have it be all love.

It's just like this immediate healing that I went through.

Did you experience that?

Yeah, it was a.

You know, it's a separate court, too.

It's the same court in a different room, but it looks exactly the same, right?

It looks the same.

And also, there was nobody there on our day for some reason.

Like, it wasn't like this thing where there was like, a million different cases and all these.

It was like we were just there, and that was like our.

I mean, there were a few people there, but it was pretty much, Yeah.

I think they do those on a different day.

Yes.

We had.

My parents flew out for it.

We had my foster guru people that.

You had a party at the house after.

We had our friend, a bunch of friends.

We had a photographer come, and she.

She was our wedding photographer.

When I asked her, oh, you know, how much would it be to do this?

She's like, I'm going to volunteer my time.

This is a beautiful story.

So she showed up.

So we have like a, you know, video kind of journalistic style.

So before, in and after.

Of course, you can't do it, like, in the specific.

You could do it in the courtroom, but not in the air.

It was really, you know, it was really great.

We had.

I would.

I think There were about 25 people, you know, and we took pictures, and it was just sort of like, oh, wow, you know, this is the day where that you've been wanting and hoping for.

And it took me earlier.

It took us almost two years, and that was considered quick.

That's considered quick.

Yeah, that.

I would say that's quick.

Ours was two and a half.

And then even for Dominic which was a safe surrender.

You would think it would go really fast.

It was still two years.

It was crazy.

Yeah, it was almost two years.

Just shy of two years.

Yeah.

So, yeah, so it was great.

And I just felt like this sense of like, okay, we can now relax and rest.

Right.

But then everything shut down.

It was Covid.

So we didn't all that to say we didn't go right into adopting again or fostering again.

We were like, we'll take a little break.

Yeah.

So.

And we're now.

We might.

We might.

I don't know.

We are in the system on hold.

We said, this is what we're okay with taking and open to, you know, and now we've had that experience.

Like, do we want.

I don't think we would do another child of a child in the system.

But this is like a safe.

A safe surrender or.

I mean, we're just going to go situation by situation.

We're.

We're sort of sure.

Can we do it?

I don't know.

You're still certified.

Like, you're still certified and everything.

Wow.

The pandemic kind of.

They switched to everything online and they kind of lost our information, and then they were able to find it and they put us back.

There was some type of technical issue.

But we're certified again, right?

Yes, and yes, we're certified.

So I don't know if we'll do it.

Does she want another family member?

Yes.

Siblings?

Yes, she does.

She wants one that has brown skin like her.

She said she wants a sister or a brother.

Yeah.

Did your daughter.

That's a lot of pressure, isn't it?

Does it.

Does it feel like a lot of pressure?

Because we definitely felt that because, yeah, our daughter really wanted a sibling.

And ironically, once she got the sibling, now she's just, like, always annoyed with him.

I mean, he's a toddler now.

He just turned three.

And so, you know, I think it was exciting when he was first gonna come, although it happened very quickly as it does, so there was not a whole lot of time to prep her for this.

Like, we had talked about it and we said we, you know, we were recertifying, and then nothing happened for, like, six months.

And so by the time we got the call, it was like, a few days later, we had a newborn baby in the house.

And in retrospect, when I look back now, I wish that we had been able to prep her a little bit more or just make sure that we were spending more time with her, because she definitely felt the thing of, like, being Displaced.

Like, it used to just be a triangle, used to just be us.

And she loved it that way.

And then suddenly there was this interloper, and our attention was split.

Our attention was taken away.

And he needed a lot of attention.

And so.

And then when she realized, because she wanted a sibling, but she wanted somebody to play with.

And then when she realized that he can't, you know, babies.

You can't play with a baby.

So it became very like, ugh, God.

Like, it's not fun.

And he screams a lot.

Cause he was colicky.

And now then he became a toddler and he'd, like, push down her, you know, Legos and do all the stuff that toddlers do.

So it's been challenging.

It been.

I mean, it's also great, and we have great moments as a family, but it's also really challenging.

It's been difficult, more difficult than we thought.

I, I, you know, I had thought we would have another child and it would be in, like, one of the embryos.

Right.

And it would be probably like in between, like, three years after.

So when she was like three or four.

But we had that.

Right.

That.

That was the pandemic time.

So like, IVF and fert, all that froze everything was kind of through our.

Our plan, you know.

Sure.

My cancer, through our family making.

Then, oh, here we are.

So I finished my.

The five years within 2021.

And then I couldn't do.

We had to wait.

It was, you know, everything was tricky with IVF and all that during the pandemic.

And so we did ultimately do use two.

They didn't work.

And so we have one more.

And then we're like, but that embryo is not black.

It's right baby.

So it's.

I, I guess I feel like I have a little more like, everyone has different stories.

Right.

But that's sort of like where we are.

And it's.

You're in this sort of tricky.

We're in this sort of tricky thing of like, do we just.

Do we do it.

Would it work?

If it doesn't work, do we do we do foster again?

It's just hard.

And now she's older, so not like we're getting them close enough together where they're gonna be true playmates, you know?

Right.

I know.

I know.

And, and that kids apart.

So they're five years apart, so she was five when.

When he came.

I know that some people have said that I've talked to have said that the, the child, if, if the child was older.

The, the first child that you Know, it's.

It's been really great because they love helping out and they can help out and everything.

My daughter's not that person.

Like, she's not into it.

She never played with dolls, like, as a baby.

Like, she's just not like a nurturing.

She's amazing in many ways, but she's not that person.

So that for us didn't work out.

But I have heard of other people saying, oh, yeah, my daughter, like, she loved him so much and she dressed him up and she did all the stuff and like, blah, blah, blah.

But, like, that's not.

That's not Izzy.

So I.

It really depends.

And there's no way to know what's going to happen.

You just have to either do it or not do it.

Another thing that I'll mention just because it just made me think of it, is that with Izzy, because Dominic is black, so he has dark, obviously dark skin and doesn't look like her.

I feel like it's been difficult too, because I think that in her, like, and this is me playing therapist a little bit, but I feel like in her perfect world, we would all look alike because she really craves that sense of belonging and, you know, just belonging to a family.

And she, even though she's half Filipino, she's Japanese, she presents as pretty white.

Like, I mean, you know, lighter skinned people wouldn't necessarily know what race she is.

And I think that, like, that was a really difficult.

It's been difficult for her in a way I never would have imagined.

But she'd always be, he doesn't look like us.

He doesn't.

And when we would go out to like a museum or something and we would see a black family, she'd be like, look, those people look like Dominic.

Like, Dominic should be in that family.

Your daughter go up to people and.

Say, wow, you have beautiful brown skin like me.

Because mine does.

You know, you discover as a parent of a transracial family, not everyone wants to be called black.

Not everyone wants to be called African.

Not, you know, everyone.

So, yeah, I feel like I'm always sort of like feeling things out.

And most people that she's done that with are very.

They're actually very.

They, like engulf her.

You know, they're like, what's your name?

How old are you?

You know?

You know, so it's been good.

But I feel like I have to kind of like.

Like have a.

I always am kind of.

Maybe it's just me.

Maybe I'm a nerd.

Ellie.

I am, but I'm Always like, oh, sorry.

You know, we're a transracial family.

And so she's just noticing.

She always wants to, she notices these things.

Yeah, but that's, that's probably great.

I mean, on the other side of that, they're probably like, yeah, you're right.

Like, you do have beautiful brown skin like me.

And that's awesome.

You know what I mean?

Like, hopefully, I would think maybe that's how they feel.

Yeah, it's funny, my daughter asked me a couple of months ago, she was like, mom, are we black?

She was like, black people are really cool.

I think they were studying maybe black history month or so.

I don't remember what it was, but she was like, black people are really good and they're really cool.

And are we black?

And I was like, well, Dominic is black.

You know, we're a mix.

We're a non traditional, beautiful multiracial family.

And you know, she was just kind of like, oh, okay.

You know, I think she would either want us all to be dark skinned or all to be, you know, it's just the differences are difficult because no one ever thinks that that's her brother, you know, but when you see other kids together, it's like obvious that like they're brother and sister and that kind of thing.

And.

Yeah, it's just a funny, interesting thing that I never would have thought about.

Yeah.

I didn't think about if I wasn't in this situation.

I filled out those forms years ago.

I wasn't like, might be like, are you her babysitter or you're her mom, you know, or rightful, you know, she's like, mom.

And she runs over to me and you know, people just look, they're not, they're just like, oh, okay.

You know, it's.

Right, it's.

I feel a little sort of like I'm on display more than other families do look alike.

And I, and my daughter might feel that because she says things like, I wish I had, you know, this like you or I wish you had.

I wish you had my skin.

You know, like, you know, so she does want that.

And there's that.

That age.

5, 6, 7.

I think they kind of like realize more and more.

And so like in the studies that have been done that, you know, they'll, they've always noticed, but now they're really going to ask and start really like saying things and.

Yeah.

And asking questions, which is good.

I mean, I think it's.

We can't hide away from it, you know.

Right.

Yeah.

It just has to be an ongoing dialogue, I think like a.

Just a.

It's a conversation, you know.

Yeah.

It's interesting because Dominic is three and it hasn't really come up on his side yet.

But I'm realizing, like, he's three, like, we need to talk about it with him anyway.

Like, even if he's not bringing it up because he's got to be noticing, you know, we have a differences.

Tons of books about it.

Do you have a lot like we talk about it?

We do have books, but I would love.

I.

We don't have a lot of transracial family books that are specifically like about that.

We do have some that are just sort of like happen to show that, but they don't.

But it's not about that.

If you have any resources in that direction, I would link to those as well.

Yeah, I do.

Any books that you love in particular?

Anything like that?

Yes, thank you.

It talks like, I'm very science person.

Like science based.

Like, because anyway, so I have.

Yeah.

Like what I love.

Different, like, and you can choose.

It shows you different.

Different skin tones.

Like, my husband's skin tone is different than mine.

And my daughter notices that now.

He's right, you know, Russian, Polish, like.

Yeah, it's just different.

You know, we all.

And why is that?

And so she.

And my daughter's very like, she like will read a book in like two seconds.

So she like, knows she'll like, should.

She's at a camp this week where it's at the zoo.

And she's like, the counselors are like, oh, she knows so many facts about animals that I didn't even know.

She just.

That's just her, you know, she loves it.

Right.

For her, that's what we've always kind of done.

And I, again, maybe it's me.

Nature versus nurture.

Right.

You know, always approach things scientifically.

Like, this is what it is and this is.

You have more melanin and.

Yeah.

What's going on science wise.

I love that because Izzy is very science minded.

So that would be really good for Izzy probably too.

She would probably love that.

Yeah, yeah.

We're getting to the end here, but I know we have a lot of listeners that are considering this journey and haven't like decided yet.

So what would you say to anybody who's thinking about doing this?

Well, it's great that they're thinking about it.

And I also, you know, if you're trying, if you want to have a family, if you're looking, I think it's a great way to change the direction of someone's life.

Like, like you said, people are in the system generation after generation after generation.

And so to stop that cycle, it takes someone to, to be removed from it.

You know, so there's that aspect of it.

But if you really are, it's, it's a, it's a beautiful thing to do.

It is like we talked about.

Bittersweet.

I guess I would just say, well, we tell my daughter, there's two trees.

There's like an oak tree and a palm tree, right?

Palm trees move and they flow when they with things, they go with the flow.

They're open, they're willing to learn.

And so you have to be a palm tree because an oak tree doesn't go with the flow and can, you know, in a storm, can be fall over and get knocked down.

You have to be a palm tree in this.

And it is a beautiful journey.

It's bittersweet.

And to just try to be the best palm tree you can be in your situation.

I love it.

Good analogy.

Thank you so much.

We'll end there.

It's been such a pleasure talking to you.

And you too.

Thanks for having me.

I look forward to.

Yeah, let's stay in touch.

This has been the Foster to Forever podcast.

Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to adopt.

Produced by Aquarius Rising Edited by Jason Serubi at splitrock Studios.

Original music composed by Joe Fulginetti.

For more information or to stay in touch, visit from foster to forever.com that's from foster the number2forever.com and stay connected with us on Instagram.

Foster 2 Forever podcast.

That's foster the number 2 Forever podcast.

We'll see you next time.