Growing Up in Foster Care, Trauma Recovery, and Finding Hope with Mary Fields

There were times where I thought, I am not going to see tomorrow morning. I'm not going to see tomorrow morning. And by some miracle, I did. I just think that I could have turned out to be a really hard, angry, bitter person.And I didn't. And I think that I owe that to the kindness that I did get from people.

It's the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt. I'm your host, Rachel Fulgenetti.

I am so pleased today to welcome to the show Mary Fields. Mary is an author. She has a brand new book out Forever and a Day. It's a memoir of her time growing up and we'll hear all about that.She's also a mom to four children and four cats. We're so pleased to have you here today. Welcome, Mary.

Thank you. It's good to be here.

I always think it's really important for our listeners to not only hear from foster parents, but to hear from people who've actually had the lived experience of being in the system. So that's a big part of what I wanted to talk to you about today. I'm wondering if you can share some of your background and history with us.

Sure. So I can't exactly remember how old I was. I was somewhere between seven and nine. That I was in the system, as I like to call it.I will preface this with I did not have a great experience. I know that there are people who have gone into the, into the foster care system and they've had wonderful experiences. Mine was not.And I remember the dcfs, I think, is what it was called where I was coming to our home multiple times before I ever entered into one of the homes. So it was going on for quite a while. So they knew about what was going on for quite a while before I was actually removed.And the first place that I remember was an actual home with a family and there were other foster kids there. So they were pretty full. And I was not there for long.I was there for Christmas and then shortly after I left there and went to, I don't know, I don't know what you would call it, like a shelter almost. It was. I don't remember a whole lot about it except that there were, you know, felt. I mean, I was a kid.So to me it felt like just like a room with, you know, a big, a big open room and then there were like bedrooms and there were quite a few kids there too. I think I was just there for like two days maybe before I was moved.To a much bigger, like, facility that had at least 100 kids where boys were on one floor and girls were on the other. And you didn't really interact with each other except at, you know, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and then recess. And that situation was awful.You didn't have any of your belongings? None. You had a bed that was more like a cot. Everybody's bed looked exactly the same.There were probably, you know, 40 to 50 kids in one giant room, all with their cots. You had one pair of shoes. If something happened to those shoes, you wore them anyway. You know, it didn't matter. And showering was communal.There were no shower curtains. You washed your hair with a bar of soap. It was, I think I say in my book, it felt like a prison. It felt like you were being punished.And the only really, time that I remember having fun was at recess. And so you would kind of group together with people and whisper and talk and try to have fun. But it was monitored very closely.Yeah, I mean, it felt like. It felt like what you see prison being, you know, because you were always watched. It. It just felt like you were the one who did something wrong.So, yeah, so my experience was not great.

What state was that?

So that was in this. That was in the South. So that was either Oklahoma or Texas. I can't tell you which one, because I don't remember what state I was in at that point.But it was Oklahoma or Texas.

Yeah. So I appreciate that, actually, about not being able to remember. I think that's a. That is a common thing that happens when you sustain trauma.I had trauma in my childhood as well. And so I can really relate to that thing of, like, just periods of blackness in my memory where it's just like. It's just kind of blank.Like, I don't remember a whole lot. In fact, the.I've had to do research into my own life, my own past, to find out, like, well, when did that happen and what year was that and, like, all of that kind of stuff. So I wonder, for you, in writing this memoir that you have written, was it like that for you? Was it kind of excavating your own past?And how did you fill in the blanks?

So, I guess, in a way, yes. You know, I have. In my book, I mentioned that I was diagnosed with disassociative identity disorder.So for some people, that can be what, to the extreme of splitting. Mine was more disassociating and having that blackness. Huge chunks of memory just gone.And when I was in therapy for a little While years ago, there is a process. I forget what it's called, where they. They do try to excavate those memories.And I chose not to do it because I just felt like what I did remember was so bad that what I don't remember, I'm not sure I want to bring that up. So in writing the book, things did come up. There would be memories that I would be like, holy cow.Like, I. I didn't even know that existed, or whatever. And so it would come out, but I didn't really do a deep dive into my own life. I didn't feel that it was necessary.I guess, even though it's a memoir, it was more of me wanting to have my inner child be able to finally tell her story in the way that she wanted to tell it. And, you know, would you go through grief? Which I realized I had been in grief my whole life, and.And the floodgates had just opened, which is why I wrote the book. I just wanted to honor her because I had pushed her aside for so long.I will say, with the memories, like, when I think about the foster care system and when I was in that last place, there's a girl that I keep remembering, and she had beautiful curly dark hair and dark skin, and I just remember her, but I interchange her with a girl. I remember when I was with my dad over the summers. And I. I don't know why, but both. They both look exactly the same.And I think it's just probably because I don't remember exactly what they look like, just some of their characteristics, and they were important to me at the time, so they're interchangeable. I will say not remembering and telling your story sometimes feels like a lie. It feels like you're lying to yourself.It feels like you're lying to other people. I remember growing up and people asking me questions like, what state did you live in when you were 7? And I would be like, I don't know.I either lived here or here, and people wouldn't believe me. But that's just the way disassociation works. And so, you know.

Yeah, I would love for you to tell our listeners about little Mary and the protector. That is a big theme in the book. Book that I could relate to. And I'm wondering if the listeners will relate as well.Can you just talk about those two essences of your personality?

For sure.So, you know, after having a diagnosis and wanting to kind of understand and also having the realization like, oh, wow, this is why I don't remember is because I was Disassociating. And then later on, going to therapy and having another therapist say, well, we all have parts. And, you know, you hear about.People talk about the ego and the inner child and, you know, your type A or type B or whatever, and how does that happen? And so my therapist was telling me, we all have parts. And what happened with you is that one of your parts decided to be in charge.And that was my protector. And the protector is tough. The protector gets shit done. And I say several times, she makes lists. She wants order.She can be cold at times, but, like, cold only because we have to get this done. Right. I don't have time to feel the emotion. She's also deeply empathetic, which is why we have so many cats.You know, we, you know, deeply empathetic. But again, get stuff done. We can feel this sadness and this anger later. Right now we have to get things done.So what happened is in this deep trauma that I had as a kid, I disassociated. And I say in the book, things go dark, and my protector stepped in, and I don't remember.So little Mary was protected from these memories, from these actions, and the protector was like you. You know, I think it started out as a, I'm going to protect you from this.But then as I aged and got older and grew up, the protector became more of who my personality was. And. And that was. We don't have time to think about what. What happened to you when you were a kid. You're no longer a kid.Let's move on and let's get stuff done. So I never dealt with that immense grief.I mean, I don't even think it was until I started writing my book that I was able to admit that I was really, really traumatized and hurt by people. And, yeah, I mean, it's. It's kind of incredible when you think about it. Like, the protector really did protect me.I. I say that if it weren't for my disassociation, I may not have survived if little Mary had always been in control, because little Mary is the one who deeply, deeply, deeply feels everything and wants everybody to be loved and nurtured and cared for. And she just wants to be loved, and she wants to be noticed and she wants to be playful, and I needed the strength, and so that's what happens.

So how do you honor or give voice to little Mary now? Are you able to do that? And. And how have you gotten there?

Yeah, I mean, it's still. It's still a struggle, right? I mean, for 40 some years I have been, you know, in this, like, get things done mode. And let's not.Let's not talk about that. But it's interesting because, you know, I have kids and I have pets, and I have this deep desire to protect them.But I also have an extremely silly side. I will embarrass my kids in grocery stores. I will, you know, and I think that that's kind of part.Part of it, I think recognizing that there were things that I didn't get to do as a child, Little Mary didn't get to do.So allowing myself to have fun, to take a moment to when things are heavy and sad, to let your inner child feel that and, you know, recognize who she is, too. Unfortunately, recently I lost a friend, and it was. It was very difficult. It's still very difficult.And I am learning that grief needs you to recognize her and to move with her, not move through her. And I think that's what my inner child needed when I was little and even now is to recognize the grief. And so for me now, when I feel.I think we all feel it, right? Sometimes life is just wonderful, and then all of a sudden you get hit with this feeling and you're not sure what it. What it is.And I believe that's grief, and I believe that's us needing to take a moment and recognize, like, breathe through it, recognize it, honor it, and then we can. We don't need to make a list. We don't always need to make a list. They're good for some things. But.

Yeah, I don't know.

I guess maybe just being silly and just living in the moment sometimes is really just honoring your inner child, or at least mine.

And you have pictures of little Mary on the COVID of the book. Is that. I'm assuming that's her?

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm wondering. I've done some inner child work in. And I. My image of myself as that child has actually changed and sort of morphed over the years.I'm just wondering if that has happened to you or. For instance. I'll be specific. When I first started doing inner child work, my inner child, little Rachel, did not even speak. She didn't speak.She didn't feel like she could speak. There were not words. And over time, I've gotten a little bit more out of her, so to speak.I'm just wondering if that has changed at all for you through the work that you've done.

Definitely. You know, for years, when I would picture little Mary, it was not a pretty sight. I think I describe it in the book.You know, she's kind of huddled in a corner. She's screaming, but there's no sound. And then when I started to write the book, which was because my dad died, and this.I can't even really describe the emotions, but I could see her. And I say, she just wouldn't shut up. She wouldn't shut up. Like, I had been able to get her to just be quiet, right? But when my dad died, it was.I could see her fists bald. She was scream, like, screaming so loud in my head constantly because her dad died.And even though the protector was angry at my dad and was just didn't care, in some ways, little Mary remembers her dad in a different way. And she loved him. And she was so sad and so angry that I was not letting her grieve. And so I had to. And now she.To me, she's still sad at times, but, wow, what a difference. Like, I see her playful.I see her, you know, almost like I have this picture of my oldest daughter when she was about 3, and she's wearing a sundress and she's outside and she's blowing one of those dandelions. And that is almost how I see little Mary now. In the sunshine, outside, playing, being a little kid, like, finally able. She was recognized.She was honored. And so, yeah, it's so beautiful.

I love that. Tell me about becoming a mother and how that has affected you. And has it. Has it changed? I mean, obviously motherhood changes everyone. Parenthood.Let's hear about that journey for you. And, you know, were you somebody that wanted to have your own family, like, a lot, or how did it unfold for you?

Well, I did always want to be a mom. I always wanted to do that.I actually have two motherhood journeys because I have three daughters from my first marriage, and they are in their twenties. And then I have a son who's nine. So my journey has kind of been different.Now with my oldest daughter, I ended up going to therapy right after I had her, because I could not. Every time I would hold her, feed her, play with her, all I could see was little Mary.All I could see was this little baby that was unloved and unwanted. And I couldn't get past that. I couldn't understand how a mom could feel like that.Like, I loved my baby so much, but how could somebody hurt their own child? And so I went into therapy. You know, mother had changed me because I. I always knew that I wanted to be a parent.I always knew I was going to do things different. But it is work, right? It's work you have, you have to make. Yes.And when you grow up believing that parenting involves abuse, you have to make a conscious decision every single day of your life that you are not going to do that. It doesn't come natural. It just doesn't.What is natural is being yelled at, having doors slammed, having things thrown at you, being smacked across the face. That's normal. And so you have to make a conscious decision. And I will say it was work.I had three children, age 3 and under, and there were days where I just didn't know how I was going to make it. I didn't. I didn't know. I. I was scared, but I did it. I. I mean, you could ask my kids. There has been, you know, I just.I just knew I was not going to do that to my kids. Now I will say I. I was not perfect. I definitely yelled. I definitely did things I probably shouldn't have, but they were never hit.They were never screame face. I didn't throw things at them like, those things didn't happen. So I will say it was a win. We're all very, very close.And then my second journey with my son has even been better. You know, I've aged. I've. I've done grief growth on myself.I've learned more about myself and where, you know, I guess having some understanding of where my parents came from, not excusing it, but understanding it, giving myself more grace. And he. My son has my daughter's joke. You weren't this nice when we were kids. So.So I think, you know, doing the work, right, you do the work, and if you keep doing the work, then things just keep getting better. And so I think that is what happened with me. And it can happen for everybody. You just have to. You have to do the work.

Yeah, it's true. It's funny with the parenting thing. There's no, no one teaches you how to be a parent.You only kind of know how to do it based on how you were brought up. Like, how else do you know how to.I mean, you could, you know, you watch Little House on the Prairie and you're like, oh, they seem like good parents, you know, but like, the reality is we're all imprinted with what we grew up with, and so we need to lift that imprint to be able to do it a different way. So I applaud that, that work that you did and that I think we're all trying to do. Right.One thing I also really responded to in your book was the use of humor. You talk a lot about how humor has been so important to you. Can you talk about humor for a minute?

Yeah. Some people might say it's kind of dark humor. Perhaps it is. But I think that, you know, as an example, for years I worked in a group home for.For profoundly autistic children. And that's hard. Very hard, right? And you have to.There are just days where you have to laugh about what's happening because if you don't, you're going to cry, you're going to break down. And it is. I think I say exactly this. It's absurd, right? It's absurdly hilarious and ridiculous.The stuff, you know, when I had to clean out my dad's residence and it was disgusting, right? It was disgusting. And I remember standing in his camper and there were dirty depends on one side of me and a pile of stuff with dead mice.And I said to my husband, I am not cleaning that man's shit. He never even changed my diaper. And then I just started laughing because it was so absurd. It was so like, seriously, I'm having to clean up his poop.And he never even changed my diaper. Like, what. What kind of universe is this? So I think that you have to find some kind of humor in everything. I. I kind of think of it as a gift.In the moment of just ridiculousness, it. Things can be funny and it's okay. You don't have to be serious all the time. Death sucks, abuse sucks. But there's also some humor in it.I know that sounds terrible to some people, but it's true. It's just as true. You know, I'm not saying that there's humor in the actual abuse, but I think I mentioned it at some point.You know, I had gotten knocked out by some hail. And I make fun of the fact that, you know, my kids will ask about the time that I got knocked out by hail and I was laying on the. On the driveway.And to me, it's funny. It's funny to. In my head, I see myself laying on the driveway with a garbage bag next to me, and I've gotten knocked out by hail. Like, who.Like, how many people can say that? And, you know, I was okay, but who knows how long I laid out there because my stepdad certainly didn't care. And, you know, it's just. And then when.When he did finally notice me, you know, he's like, you smell like a wet dog. Like, okay. No, are you okay? You smell like a Wet dog. It just. To me, even though it's awful, it's also kind of funny. I just.You have to laugh about it because otherwise you'll just always be miserable. You'll just always be sad.

Yeah.

And I made it, you know, I'm here so I can laugh about it, I can joke about it, and.

Right. Yeah. I think it's a coping mechanism for sure, and a good one.And it's funny because I think oftentimes a lot of comedians actually have a lot of darkness in their past and things that they've sustained, and that's, you know, how they got through. So, yeah, I think there's definitely always a place for humor. Talk to me about your relationship with animals, particularly cats.

Yeah, so. Well, I currently have four cats. They, you know, have always been a part of my life. When I was growing up, my mom loved cats. She probably still does.But my stepdad was not kind to them. And I don't have a lot of memories, or what I do remember is pretty horrific.And I think that my protector part wouldn't allow little Mary to remember, which I think is a good thing. But I just had this deep love for them and so much compassion and empathy for what they were going through.I think I replaced my own sadness for myself for sadness for them. And so as I got older, even as a kid, I wanted to be around animals.And so I would volunteer at the animal shelter or I would go to neighbors who had cats, and I would spend my time there. And then when I got older and I was able to have my own. My first husband was allergic to cats, so we didn't have any then.But when we divorced, the first thing that I did was I got two cats that had been abandoned. Both of them passed away a couple years ago. And it still makes me very, very sad. But they were with me for a very long time, and.And then now we have four more, and we're done. We're done, we're done. But, you know, I just think that there's something really special about animals. They love you no matter what.And they are also very healing. I had a pretty intensive surgery in July on my spinal cord, and I have a couple of them that just would not leave my side at all.They knew something was up and they wouldn't leave my side. And. Yeah, I just have this deep love for animals. I think a lot of people do. Mine might be extreme. I don't know. I am the crazy cat lady. It's okay.

Yeah, no, I grew up. I certainly grew up with my animals were my best friends because I didn't have, like, siblings close in age to me.All of my siblings were much older than me. And so I was alone a lot. And so my cats, our dog, like, they were my best friends. And like you were saying, just that unconditional love.You can tell them anything. They're going to be there for you. They kind of feel and sense if you need something, even if you don't know you need it.And, yeah, they're so beautiful.

That's.

That's really cool. Did you ever think about fostering children?

You know, I think years and years ago I did. I thought that that would be, you know, an option. But then, you know, life happens, right?Like, I had three kids, and then I got a divorce, and I was a single mom for a long time, and then I found, you know, got remarried. And I think that, you know, it's probably. It's not something that I think that we would ever do.However, I do think that it's important to still talk about it. I feel like I do have in. I do have this intense need and desire to advocate for foster kids.Having been a foster kid, I understand the shame that goes along with it. There shouldn't be, but there is. And just like the loneliness, the not knowing where you belong, if you belong, what did I do wrong?You know, And I think that it's important to speak. I don't want to speak for them, but I want. I want to advocate for them somehow.And I feel like the chapter in my book about fostering is part of that for me, but also, you know, being here and talking about it, talking about my experiences. But no, I don't think I would ever foster at this point. Who knows? Maybe life will change and. And. And I would, but I don't think so.

What do people not understand about the foster care system?

Well, I think. I guess maybe my. I think maybe everybody's opinion on this could be different. So I'll.

Just.

For me, I think that there's a big misconception that these kids are bad. I know.And I can very clearly remember after I came out of the foster care system and I moved in with my grandma, and then I started a new school, and I walked into the school gym, and he'll probably never see this, but if he does, I want that gym teacher to know. I heard him. I heard him say to another gym teacher, oh, she's the new kid. She's a delinquent. And I had never even stepped foot in that gym.Or that school before that day, like, you heard my story that I was like a foster kid and now I lived with my grandma and you already labeled me a delinquent. I hadn't even done anything. And I think that that's right. That's the misconception that it. That a child who has been broken, abused, abandoned. They.They did nothing.

That's right.

They did nothing. And we should not be judging them based on what their parents did. Their parents are the ones who are the delinquents. Like, what?

Yeah.

And so I think that's the misconception is that these kids are bad, will always be bad, and they will never amount to anything. And that's just not fair. It's. It's not fair. It's not right, but it's 100% not true. And I think that what people forget is that words have meaning.So you put it out there enough. Right. Why aren't we putting out there that this kid had a rough start. But we're. They're smart, they're.They're, you know, talented, they are athletic. Like, why aren't we doing that instead and building these kids up instead of making them feel like garbage? For me, I think that's the misconception.

Yeah. Yeah. And shame on that. That guy, if he ever hears this, like, for real.

I mean, I was like 9 years old or maybe. Maybe a little. Yeah, maybe a little older than that. But I definitely remember it. I definitely remember that. It's stuck with me. And words matter.

They do. You did live with your grandma for quite a while, and that is kinship care.So I don't know if they were calling it that then, but we're referring to it as kinship care. Can you talk about.Do you think that being with her was better than being in either the group homes that you were discussing or previously or just some other random family that you didn't know? Talk about that. What was it like to be with your grandmother? Pros and cons, pluses and minuses, that kind of thing.

Yeah, that's a tough one. That's a tough one because my grandma was not nice. Was it better? I would say stability wise, Yes.I lived with her from the time I was like 9 until I was 14. And so I had the stability of, you know, always having a place to sleep.I had the stability of always having the same school, having the same friends, things like that. So in that sense, definitely better. But she was not a nice person. So I still went to bed hungry plenty of times.I still got hit and yelled at for things that made no sense. And, you know, she was just. She was pretty mean. And so, you know, I truly just went from one abusive home to another. But having the stability, right.Of a home and a place to sleep and friends and being able to have a little bit more freedom was definitely better. And I think that through that, I was able to at least learn, you know, that I had hobbies and that there were things that I liked.But there was always this sense of you had to do things in secret so everything was wrong. Like, if I was reading a book, I had to hide it because she would take it away. Like, there was no. No fun, no joy was really allowed in her house.I don't know why, but she just was not a nice person. So, you know, and I think a lot of my issues that I have now with. With things like. Let's see.I trying to think of, like, what I do besides food issues, which is. I have food issues, too. I can't. You know, let's start there.

Let's talk about the food issues. Yeah.

So, you know, I. When I lived with my mom and stepdad, I was very hungry. You never knew when you were going to eat or if you were going to eat.And then when you did have food, you had to eat it regardless of if you liked it or not. So I have a rule in my house, I always have, which is we don't use food as a punishment. We don't force people to eat.And if somebody says they're not hungry, then they're not hungry. If somebody says they are hungry, then they get to eat. Like, and my. My husband is like, but he just ate 20 minutes ago. How can he be hungry?And I'm kind of like, I don't care. Let him eat. Like, yeah, but I also over buy. I have, you know, food stored away in our pantry because I'm like, what if we run out?My husband's like, there's a store two minutes down the road. And I'm like, but what if we run out?

Yes.

I don't know. Yeah, so lots. You know, there's those food issues. I don't. I buy stuff that my son likes. So let's say goldfish or granola bars, and I won't eat them.There's, like, in my head, there's this unwritten rule that those are his. And. And I have my own things that I can eat, but I'm not allowed to eat his.And I don't know exactly why, but I won't eat his Things, and I kind of get upset if my husband eats them. I'm like, what are you doing?

Those aren't yours, huh?

Yeah. And so, so there's the overbite.But then there's like, with my, with my grandma, there were things, like if I got gifts, clothes, she would often not let me have them. And she would take them, she would put them in another room, lock the door, and then give them away to, like, my cousins.And I don't, you know, it was like I just wasn't good enough to have those things. So now I have way too many clothes. I have way too many shoes. I'm a thrifter, so I love, you know, I love going thrifting.And so I over buy, I overbuy, I overkeep. And then I end up donating a lot every year because I'm like, oh, I never even wore this.But there's this feeling I think of, I can now have my own things. So I'm going to have as many of them as possible. Same thing with books. I'm in here. These whole shelves are shelves above me, too.Just books everywhere, everywhere. Do I need more books? No. But do I want them? Yes, I'm going to get them because they're mine and nobody can take them from me. So, yeah.

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And so what I'm hearing is a level of acceptance also. Like, you're not making yourself wrong for those wants and desires.Like, you've kind of accepted, like, yeah, hey, man, this is like, who I am. And you have. It sounds like you have compassion for little Mary, if I'm correct.And you're just accepting that instead of thinking like, oh, this is something I should change.

Yeah, yeah, I guess I have just kind of accepted it. I don't think I've ever seen it as something.I just think that also I have to recognize that I'm blessed and privileged to be able to buy those things. And so I think maybe the compromise that I have made in buying those things is, Is usually thrifting. Right.I feel, I feel a sense of, you know, I'll find a. A thrift store that donates to, you know, local charities and thrift there.So not only am I appeasing my inner child, I'm also giving back to the community at large. Right. So I feel like that's kind of the compromise I've made.And I recognize that I'm privileged enough to be able to do that because certainly as a kid, I, you know, I wore the same outfit multiple Days in a row. Right. So. And I'm the same way with my kids. My. I buy so much clothes for my son, but again, they're all thrifted.So, you know, I'm like, you know, you. Oh, you have 25 hoodies. You might have too many. You probably don't need anymore, but it was only $3, so.

Love a deal. I love a deal.Getting back to the food thing, I'm wondering how you deal with, like, vegetables, for instance, for your son or something that, like, he might not want to eat. You say you never force food or anything like that, but how do you deal with those sticky points? Like, it was something I struggle with with my kids.So I'm just curious.

Yeah, it's definitely different. Difficult because he tends to be a picky eater, but from early, early on, he's always been a trier. And so we've always said, just try it.If you don't like it, spit it out. No big deal. But we want you to at least try it.And, you know, he goes through phases, your kids probably do, too, where they're like, oh, I love this, I love this, I love this. And then next month, they hate it.

Yeah. As soon as you buy, like, a lot of it, then they, all of a sudden, they don't like it anymore.You start putting it in their lunch, and then they're just not eating it. Yeah.

Yes, exactly. So, you know, I.What I tried to do is make sure that when we're having something to eat, there's always something on the plate that I know that he likes. So, you know, he really likes salmon. So we'll have salmon and broccoli and maybe some. A salad.And I'll put, like, a couple of pieces of salad on his plate. I know he's not going to eat it, but I'll do it anyway. And just be like, could you at least try it? Just take a bite of it.If you don't like it, you can spit it out. So there's that. That. That tends to work. And then sometimes he finds out, oh, I really like this. And then he'll go for it.You know, talking to him about what the doctor said, you know, he go. He went to the doctor recently, and the doctor was like, you need to be eating a fistful of fruit and a fistful full of vegetables every day.And so I'm like, okay, have you had your fistful? Look at your hand. Have you had your fistful? So sometimes that helps, too. But I have learned the way you talk to them matters.So if you're just like, no, you have to eat that vegetable. You're going to eat that vegetable. They're going to do what. They're going to push back, because that's what they do.They are their own, you know, being. So then if you're like, okay, well, if you don't eat, then you're just gonna go hungry. Well, that's not gonna work in my house.So I have to figure out. I have to figure something out. So does that mean we're pivoting and trying to find him something that he eats? Or is. Are we compromising?It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work, but I'm not gonna let my kid go to bed hungry, and I'm not going to make. Make my kids feel the way I did at the dinner table.I don't know your background, but I definitely remember sitting at dinner tables and having that sadness and that pit in your stomach while you're trying to eat. And that's not nourishing. You're sick to your stomach. That is not a memory I want my kids to have. So how do we fix this?

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Yeah.I do try to remember something that my pediatrician said, which was, instead of looking at what they're eating in a day, let's look at what they're eating in a week. And so let's say he's had two yogurts during the week, and he's had milk every day, and he's had broccoli twice a week.And every single day he had, you know, his vitamin. If you're looking at it as a whole week, it's not so bad.

Right.

So.

Yeah.

So trying to change your perspective a little bit. So.

That'S a good tip. I like it. Yeah. You have no contact with your birth mom. With your mom?

No.

And do you think that will ever change or you just. You're. You're done?

No. No. I know. Yeah. She did reach out to me a couple of times. She reached out to me through Facebook after my dad died to say, I'm sorry. I ignored it.And then she reached out to me again to say, don't you think you should love unconditionally? And I ignored it. And then she reached out to me again, and then I just blocked her. So, no. No. There's no accountability there. No, there's.I. I think it's kind of a lost cause at this point. I think that even at this point point, because I'm almost 50. So at this point, you know, she's had 50 years to have some accountability.And just as early as, you know, a year, two years ago, she was still saying that I was a bad kid. So that's why these things happened.So I just think it's a lost cause at this juncture and I'm stronger than I was before and I know that it wasn't me being a bad kid. So I can't be gaslit anymore, basically, so not interested.

How. Have you talked about that with your children? Have you talked about that with your children?

Yeah, I mean, age appropriately, right? But it's hard. It's hard now. You know, when my girls were little, it was different, but I've always been pretty open.They ask questions like, why don't you have a mom? Or why don't you have a dad? And so I would just say, you know, my mom and dad weren't nice to me. My mom and dad didn't, they didn't want me.And so I lived with somebody else. And that can be difficult for a kid to hear because they, they try and relate it to themselves. Right.So I try to explain especially, yeah, you know, that was so many years ago with my daughter. So as I recall it with my son, who's very astute, I tried to explain to him, like, look, you know, what was, what happened?I made a joke about a spanking. I said something about a spanking and he was probably six or seven and he said, what. What is a spanking?And I said, well, sometimes parents will spank their kids like on the bottom when they've done something bad. And he just looked at me and he was like, I don't believe you. Parents don't hit their kids.And so, you know, in explaining to him about my parents, I have explained like, they, my mom hit me, my stepdad hit me, and they did bad things to me. And that is why I don't have anything to do with them. And so, you know, I think it's only fair to just be honest.

Right, yeah.

In. In an age appropriate way, of course.

Yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah.

Yeah.

What would you like the listeners to take away from either your book and, or your life?

I don't want people to get my book thinking that it is a pick yourself up by the bootstraps and you can do this because not everybody can. Right. Not everybody has a happy ending. And that's just the sad fact.Not everybody is going to be equipped to deal with some of the stuff life gives you. And that's really unfortunate.And I do Think that if we all have kindness, even in the midst of all that awfulness, if we can be kind to others, whether it's an animal or another person, that that kindness can, you know, expand out.Because I do believe that for myself, and if it hadn't been for those glimmers of kindness that I got from other people that I could hold on to, my life would be much different, because those bits of kindness gave me hope.And I think even if I hadn't have made it, which I do believe, if I didn't disassociate and I had still been with my parents, I probably wouldn't have made it. I would have starved, they would have beat me. I would not be here. So my disassociation helped.But I think having that hope that things were going to change matters. And so I just want people to look for the kindness. I'm not saying that everybody's going to make it, which is heartbreaking, Right?It's heartbreaking. But we know the true reality.We know this, but we can still be kind and hopefully kindness, enough kindness, Right, can break these cycles and we can help these people who are living this every day. Yeah.

That's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah.

I mean, it's sad. It's sad, but it is also, you know, I mean, I will tell you, there were. There were times where I thought, I am not going to see tomorrow morning.I'm not going to see tomorrow morning. And by some miracle, I did. And I just think that I could have turned out to be a really hard, angry, bitter person. And I didn't.And I think that I owe that to the kindness that I did get from people. So if we could just get. Keep being kind, I think we can heal a lot of people.

Amazing message. Thank you for sharing that, man. Tell me real quick about the title of the book. Forever and a Day.

Yeah. So Forever in a Day is how my mom signed her letters. And so there's a bit of irony in that, that she would say, I love you forever in a day.And she didn't. So I decided to take that as the title of my book. Because I mean it. I do. I love Forever in a Day. So I took it back.

Nice.

Yeah.

All right. Is there anything I missed? Is there anything else that you want to share?

Gosh, I mean, I don't think so. I think we hit everything.

We hit it all. We hit it all. All right, great. Well, it's been so lovely talking to you.

You, too.

Thank you so much for sharing your message.

Thank you for allowing me to.

This.

Has been the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt. Produced by Aquarius Rising. Original music composed by Joe Fulgenetti.For more information or to stay in touch, visit from foster to forever.com.com that's from foster the number two forever.com and stay connected with us on Instagram at foster2forever podcast. That's foster the number two forever podcast. We'll see you next time.