Mentorship: The Power of Being a Big Brother or Sister

I think I went into it initially thinking, okay, I'm gonna help this kid.

I'm gonna, you know, fix his life for him and all that.

And I learned very fast that you don't replace their father.

You're not the replacement to the father.

You're their big brother.

You're their friend.

It's the Foster to Forever podcast.

Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt.

I'm your host, Rachel Fulgenetti.

I am happy to introduce Dennis DJ Quinn.

Dennis is a youth advocate and mentor.

He's worked extensively with the Big Brother organization and also an organization called Lunch Pals.

I welcome you, Dennis, and let's hear about your experiences.

Thanks.

I appreciate you having me on the show.

Currently I live out in Washington.

I'm the second oldest of nine kids.

And when I was growing up, our, our parents were both very actively involved in our family.

And so there were commercials on TV about the Big Brother program to, to work with kids without fathers or absent fathers.

And I told one of my sisters that, you know, if when I move away from home, I think I'll do that, but.

But that had an impact on me.

And so when I did move away from home in 1980, I moved out to Minneapolis and I applied to be a Big Brother volunteer, which was they wanted a commitment of a couple hours a week and for a year.

So I did that and I met my little brother and it turned into a lifelong relationship.

Met when he was 11 and I was 23 and he actually just passed away last year.

So we had known each other for 45 plus years.

I'm so sorry.

Yeah.

And that was the first one I did.

And then when I was in Seattle, I applied again to be a Big Brother and was matched in 1992 with a boy that was 7 years old that had some handicaps and he was adopted.

He was in the process of being adopted by the woman who was his foster mother for several years.

And so that's when I became involved with the two of those.

And then we had a 13 year journey together.

And then currently I'm volunteering in the Big Brother Big Sister Munch Buddy program where we go a couple times a month and have lunch with a first grader, which is a totally different experience.

Is it a first grader who is, who needs, who has like some kind of special needs or is a foster youth or is it just any first grader?

They had selected these kids and I'm not sure some of them look like some special needs.

My little brother or little Lunch buddy in particular is as high charged as any I've ever met.

And sitting is a challenge for him.

So it's.

It's keeping up with him at my age is.

But it's a beginning program that they started doing here and they're seeing how it goes.

But I don't know all that much about his family background or his own personal history.

Sure.

You know, I wanted to have you on because a lot of listeners are really interested and curious about foster care.

They may have always had a feeling similar to the feeling you talked about about being a big Brother, that they wanted to like, do foster care, be involved, but they're kind of afraid of that commitment or it's not right for them in their life right at this moment to like open their home to having a child in their home full time.

So I think that this seems like a really good way to the bridge between doing nothing and ignoring that impulse and taking on something that you maybe are not quite ready for.

And the big Brother Big sister program has been around for a really long time.

What was it like to get certified?

Is there a.

Do you have to take classes?

What, how, what.

I know what the certifications are for foster care, but I'm not sure about this.

The big Brother big sister program, the.

Certification was they take an application, they do a background check, they do, you know, all of that, and then they interview you.

Our mine was three or two different times, about three hours a piece where you were going through.

And they would go through your whole work history, your whole life history, your whole relationship history, all of that to make sure that you were going to be a.

Somebody that was safe for their child and also somebody who is going to be committed to do this for, not join in and go and then split from the kid.

Because a lot of those kids had already had that.

They then I think at this stage, they came over and did a house check, three references.

Okay.

You know, and all that had to be in place before they did that.

And then when you were matched individually with a child, the you were, they called me and said, okay, we have this kid.

We think he might be a good fit for you.

And they would go through his.

His background with you, and then they would approach the mother and the mother had the fine, the final say on whether you in fact would be matched with their child.

I see.

And did they match you based on your interests?

It's hard to tell when I.

When they match me with my second little brother, Michael, that I think they gave me somebody, they told me they gave me somebody that was maybe a little more challenging because I had been a big brother before and what he was younger.

He was seven years old.

He had been bounced in and out of foster homes for, for the last five years.

And most of those had been with the woman who then adopted him.

Benny was her name.

And so.

And she told that I met with her before I met with him, her and.

And the case workers.

And she kind of explained what she was hoping to do for.

For him, some of the stuff she had involved him involved in activities in that.

And, and what she was hoping that we could develop as our.

Our relationship.

And, and it turned out to be a really good.

A good relationship.

And I think it also very helpful to the mothers, whether they were the.

Both.

The first mother was single and, and Betty was divorced at the time.

Um, it gave them a freedom for a couple hours.

Yeah.

Every so often.

And it also developed into the way the kid had a.

You know, sometimes stuff would come up and, and how you approach that and he'd be more likely to tell me than he would be his mother.

And so that was really helpful in that way.

How do you handle that in terms of privacy and confidence?

Like if the child tells you something in confidence, you have to make a decision whether you need to tell the caregiver about that.

Is that correct?

Right, that's right.

And how I handled that with Mike, I told him that if something came up that I thought his mom needed to know, then he had the choice.

He could tell her when we got back from our visit when I was there, or he could tell him by himself.

But I was going to call her to make sure that he told her.

Right.

And he always, it was always safer for him to tell why I was there.

He had a buffer.

Right.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And then the, the.

The caseworkers were always involved or there that you could contact them, say, hey, how do I handle that?

But anything that really came up like that, I, I really tried to make sure that she was aware of anything that I felt was drastically important or, or something real serious.

Sure.

And they make you commit for.

I mean, I shouldn't say they make you.

But what is the suggested commitment?

Is it like a year long suggested commitment or is it how.

How does that work?

How frequently.

I bet it.

I believe it's still for a year that they want the commitment.

Okay.

And probably a couple hours every other week or so would be that.

So when I went into my second match, I knew because of my first match that.

That this was Going to be a longer term process than just a year.

And yeah, take me back to that first day, initial day.

So you get matched with a child.

How do you just start doing that?

Like how does.

What, what was that like?

On my first match it was, here's this kid and he's really kind of quiet and we went out for pizza and just talked a little bit in that.

And then we kind of made an arrangement for what we're gonna do the next time and try to get a little bit of what his interests are.

Do you like doing this?

They want you to avoid being the ATM machine or grind a lot of that stuff.

And you just gradually did it bit by bit like that.

He was not one.

I got a lot of feedback from him on how he felt about it.

He was fairly stoic, but occasionally you would run into or you'd do something or see a friend with he.

When he was with them and, and the little, the other kid would say, hey, you know, he talks about you all the time, you know, give you a little ego boost on it.

But.

And his, also his, his mother and her family were very, very supportive of it.

The second little brother was more.

He was like this just almost little teddy bear kid that had a real hard time talking.

He, he was like a bull in the china shop.

And, and one of the things his mom wanted him to learn with some social boundaries and including like he'd always give you a big bear hug when you first met him.

He gave me a bear hug around the waist.

So starting from day one when I left, I showed him.

Here's our big brother handshake that we're going to use and just consistently did that.

Okay.

You just gradually do it.

And then about the third time we went out, he, he did that little I'm going to show you thing and started walking the other way and eventually picked up some rocks and threw them at me.

So we, and then he couldn't believe we ended the match early that day.

Wow.

Just consistency and, you know, real patience with them.

Right.

It sounds a lot like fostering in a way, except that you're not there all the time.

You're only seeing them for a few hours a week.

But you know that from, from time to time it can be, it can be really good one day and then it can just be a disaster the next day.

Did you experience that?

And did you, how did you, did you feel that you had the training to deal with whatever came up or did you just kind of learn on the job?

I think I kind of learned on the job with Michael, he was a little bit more.

More challenging.

He.

The speech and whatnot was really a challenge that he was trying to do.

He couldn't get the words out.

And.

And it was very obvious that he had a lot of trouble with them just encouraging him, making him.

When we'd go to McDonald's or something, that he had to order his own stuff.

And he got more and more comfortable with that.

And one day he was having a horrible, horrible time with it.

And what I did then was actually pulled the car over and told him that I had been impeached therapy when I was a kid, that I couldn't say my S's right.

And I was showing him how I used to say them and.

And that.

And I told him.

I was so embarrassed.

I didn't tell my brothers and sisters that I had to go to speech therapy, but it helped me, and I just encouraged him.

You keep working at it.

And from that day forward, I never saw him have another big meltdown over his speech.

So.

It's beautiful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So things like that, you would just be patient with it, right?

Yeah.

And sharing your own experience and your own hardship.

I find that my daughter, she really loves to hear stories about, like, when I was young and, like, what I struggled with, because I think it's just.

It's that universal thing, like, hey, we all struggle with stuff.

Right?

And, yeah.

She's always asking me, like, even though she knows, she's like, did kids make fun of you on the playground?

I'm like, yep, they sure did.

I got made fun of all the time.

And, you know, it just makes her feel less alone in what she goes through.

She's on the spectrum.

And, you know, not every kid.

You know, she doesn't connect with every kid, and that's okay, but it's.

It can be challenging in social situations.

Did you end up having children of your own?

No.

No, I don't.

Okay.

I had nine brothers and sisters that.

And I was the second oldest, so that was a lot of harassment training, how to.

How to deal with.

So you're pretty clear, like, yeah, I'm not gonna, like, do the big family thing or anything like that.

No, no.

Okay.

And it was a real good experience for me, too.

It was a commitment.

When I first started on the first time, I was just out of college.

I was working for an airline.

A lot of people bouncing from base to base, or I could move here and that.

And it gave me a stable commitment.

I have this commitment to do this.

So I Right.

I'm gonna stay here and hang on to it.

And that was really important for me.

Sure.

What surprised you the most about the journey or what are some of the things that surprised you?

I think I went into it initially thinking, okay, I'm going to help this kid.

I'm going to, you know, fix his life for him and all that.

And I learned very fast that a, you don't replace their father.

You're not the replacement to the father.

You're their big brother, you're their friend.

And then I think how much it changed me, what it did for me.

I mean, it was a, it was a confidence boost, but it was also an eye opening situation where I'm seeing how other people live and how they interact with their families and, and how fortunate I was for where I came from and what I was given and that I learned that I can give that back to them.

And also some of the hardships that I had gone through, I learned that, hey, I can, I can help somebody with that in just identifying with it or, or encouraging them.

So that was, that was it.

And then it was a lot of fun too.

I mean, there were, there were times where you just laugh about it.

My first little brother and I were, he was out here last summer.

We were still laughing about stupid stuff we had done back then.

You know, I took him out of drive and, and all that kind of stuff.

So it's, it was, it was a good thing.

But the most surprise I think was, you know, what it did for me.

And I think that's what I encourage people now is, is do it because it helps you, it helps you get more out of it than they do, you know, and if you were in that position, you'd want some guy to step forward or guy or gal to help you out a little bit.

That's right.

What advice would you have to somebody who's, who's interested in doing it?

I would say look into it.

First of all, I know that nationally the Big Brother organization is having a drive right now to try to get 10,000 volunteers for matches because there is a waiting list.

And especially for boys waiting for a Big Brother, there's just a shortage of volunteers and some kids wait for several years and some kids don't get matched.

So that would be the thing.

I think that if it seems like you mentioned before the, that the commitment, the fear of, okay, that's really a commitment that might be a little too much or whatnot.

They have some other programs that are like the lunch buddy thing, it's only a couple hours a month.

And most of us spend that time, that amount of time in a day, looking at our phones.

Yeah, no kidding.

Yeah.

And it can be, it can be really valuable for the kid, but it also can be very valuable for the volunteer because you see life on a whole different plane when you're helping somebody else out.

And it gets, it got me out of my own head many, many a time where, okay, I can't worry about that.

We're gonna go fly kites.

Yeah, it's true.

It gives you an excuse.

That's one of the things I love about having kids is like, it gives me an excuse to like, do all this fun stuff that, like, I always love doing fun stuff.

But like after, when you become like an adult, like, you're just like adulting all the time.

But then when you have kids or when you become a big brother or sister, you get to go experience all that stuff again and, and go to the fair and go to the zoo and all that.

It's fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is there anything else that we, you think we should know or that you would say to anyone who's still hesitating because there's no real trial.

Right.

Like, it's not like you can be like, oh, I'm gonna try this out.

And if it doesn't work, it's like, you gotta, you gotta commit to it.

Right.

I, I would say, first of all, see about it and see about doing it.

And, and if that isn't a fit, there are plenty of volunteer opportunities to do with somebody where you can go in and either help a kid or help a grown up or help somebody that's disabled.

What I learned was how hard it is sometimes for people who have some disabilities.

I learned this with Mike to find housing that's stable as they get older.

And I have some friends right now that are adults with disabilities that I do things with periodically.

And that.

And it's just anything you can do to support somebody in that role is helpful.

It's really helpful.

And it helps me remember that, you know, I've been given a pretty good life.

I've been given a lot of, you know, good health, good family and pass that on.

It's true.

It's true.

And I love what you're saying about just like look into.

You could maybe just do a one day thing.

Start with that.

Just do a one day, like volunteer for this one thing and take it slow.

Yeah, I like that.

I think this is something that a lot of people are interested in and just don't know enough about it.

Yeah, yeah, it's good for you.

You know, the.

The book I wrote about my little brother Mike and our adventure, that one takes a turn from where he finally got.

The foster mother finally adopted him because she was a.

Afraid he was going to be lost in the system.

And she was probably right on it.

And.

And she was 63 and he was 7.

And then her family also helped her with him.

But then he.

Mental illness hit as he hit puberty and the whole thing changed.

And it.

For her, it was helpful also to have myself and my partner who had a little brother at the same time, you know, as part of their family, help them, you know, get through things and whatnot.

And then as Mike illness progressed, he wasn't able to live with her anymore.

It.

It shows that when you.

Even when you get into the fostering or the adopting process, you really don't know what's going to come down the line.

But the thing that she did was she gave him a chance.

And no matter how it turned out, she stepped forward, took care of him, adopted him, and she gave him a chance at life.

And she reached out also.

She was.

She took the initiative to get him into Big Brother.

She took the initiative to get him into swim lessons and get his help.

Get help for him and that.

And it's.

It's a pretty powerful thing.

Tell me about the book.

It's called Stick Figures A Big Brother Remembers by D.J.

quinn.

When I first was matched with Mike, they told me he had trouble with transitions.

Like, if you're out with them, don't just say, we gotta go five minutes, four minutes.

Give him some time like that.

Sure.

And when I did, the first day I met him, I gave him a little calendar to keep that I had made.

And.

And it had his birthday marked on it and a few other things.

And what ended up happening was that we would come home from outings and we'd sit down in his mom's living room, visit with her for a while, and I started drawing these little stick figures of a big stick figure and a little stick figure of what we had done that day.

So that the heathen had kind of this recorded history of over a few years of things.

He could look back and see whether you were canoeing or skiing or whatever.

Brilliant.

Yeah, that's really cool.

And then when he got ill and would no longer live with Betty, at some point in one of the moves, the calendars got lost.

And what.

The name comes from those stick figures.

And then it also ties in at the end of the book.

But then his journey was when he could no longer live with Betty.

He was into group homes or a foster home at one point or another group home or on the street.

And you just never knew where you were going to find him or what was going to be the state.

And I followed him all the way for 13 years.

We would get together and whatnot.

And.

And so it covers that journey in there and it's.

It's pretty profound.

How did you handle that on an emotional level, his struggles, and not because you can't get overly involved, I would imagine, like, you have to just be there, but not try to get in there and fix and save.

Right.

I.

My husband Joe has.

He has a little brother too, that was the same age as Mike when we met him, and he's now 39 and we still see him all the time.

But he was very, very supportive of it.

He had a more objective look on it is that he.

He was always more concerned that Michael was going to hurt somebody else than himself.

And he was supportive on that, had other friends that were supportive of it.

It was knowing the boundaries and a constant struggle of, what can I do?

What should I do?

Why bother?

And as he progressed down the.

Down the scope, I just wanted to make sure, because Betty was no longer able to care for him, that he had somebody there that his life, that he could.

No matter where he was, that he could remember and.

And I could.

I would go see him and we'd play chess for a couple hours or then you'd go to go see him at a group home.

Well, he's not here anymore and we can't tell you where he's at.

So.

But it was a process of that writing the book with some good closure on it.

But eventually it just.

It.

It really made me question why.

And it also would.

Made me spiritually, what do I believe?

And why would something like that.

Why would a kid be given these amounts of huge burdens as a child, you know, thrown on the earth with a parents who couldn't take care of them.

Why and what.

You know, Joe, my husband's take on it all was, look at all the people that Mike brought together.

Because there were social workers and there was Betty and her family and all of us that he brought us all together and.

And he's just an example that you had to.

You have to look at.

You don't understand why.

What did I get out of it?

You know, it was pretty profound and it was great theater at time to be in mental Hospitals, playing chess in rooms surrounded by underwear.

And this guy that wouldn't take a bath.

I mean, I do okay.

I'm fairly bright.

And he'd whip my butt in chest every time we play.

He's walked, you know, so it's this whole thing that was.

It was.

It was pretty.

Pretty unique.

And he was.

We had some really fabulous times together when he was younger.

And, well, and he was.

You know, sometimes he.

He just would come up with these wild ideas.

Like he wanted.

One time he wanted a new video game.

And he said, next week let's go down to Pike Street Market in Seattle and.

And we'll beg.

That sounds like a good brother.

Big brother day.

Go bag for a video game at the market.

Oh, that's funny.

Oh, wow.

That book sounds amazing.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna get it.

Is it on like all of the.

Isn't in like Amazon or whatever?

How should people purchase it?

I.

It's available at my website, which is djquinauthor.com.

Okay.

I have it.

Have it there.

Great.

Is available on Amazon and that.

But I.

D.J.

quinn author.

I'll get him a signed copy.

Okay.

Wonderful.

How did you decide getting back to.

I just.

This stuck in my head about the stick figure drawings.

Had you.

Was that a spontaneous thing that you did or had you decided, this is what I'm gonna do every time after?

Because it is a.

It's a great idea.

What a cute idea that is.

It was spontaneous.

And that is the pinnacle of my artistic ability.

Is a little stiff because I can write on how to draw a picture, but I can't do one myself.

Right.

Yep.

Yeah.

So we just started doing that.

Yeah.

And did you keep them all in a book like it was in one book or.

They were in a calendar.

Each one.

Each year had a different calendar.

Got it.

And so he would get the calendar out of the drawer and he'd come and he'd sit down next to me and.

And, you know, we had.

We'd go out to Lake Washington and that.

And one, you know, like one day we.

We'd go out in front of where they were building Bill Gates house right in front of his house on Lake Washington.

And I draw the stick figures when we got home.

And what we had done was at the end of the thing, there was.

Joe was his.

With his little brother, and I was with mine.

We all jumped into the water and as we said, peed in Bill Gates's pool.

They just thought that was the greatest thing in the world.

And Betty would just roll her eyes when he got back, but she didn't care.

You know, she could see he was helping him out.

Yeah, that's really cute.

Yeah.

I think we're coming to the end of our time together, but it's really fun to talk to you.

And I do think it's really valuable information for people who want to do something and they want to make a difference and a change, but they're not ready for a full time commitment.

And that's the beauty of it.

Two hours and here's your kid back.

Right.

But it has been great for me in that and I really appreciate you having me on here and I appreciate the work you're doing.

It's pretty neat.

There's a lot of kids out there in need that the foster homes there really are.

They really are.

There's so many people who want to help, but they don't even know how to help.

They don't know what to do.

And then it always kind of makes me laugh that there's so many people that do so much for animals.

And I love animals.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a total animal person.

Person.

I love animals.

But like, also there's like humans that need a lot too.

And, and it's a lot trickier with a human.

I mean, dogs and cats will have their issues as well, but when you have a kid, it's like exponentially more difficult.

But it's, it's just so important.

You can't lock the kid in the kennel for three hours and go to the store, you know.

That's right.

But I, we, we do some work at the juvenile detention center too.

And I've run into several kids there that have been, you know, are confined in that and, and waiting on an appropriate foster place to be put.

Yep.

You know, and so there's a huge.

Need out there for older children.

Yeah.

Especially it's.

It's very, very difficult.

Did you and Joe meet through this or did you.

Had you already been together and then you kind of convinced him to get like.

How did the, how did it happen with the two of you having big brothers?

We were both flying out in Minneapolis right after college, Both flight attendants and we met there and then.

So that's how he met my, my first little brother, Scott, pretty well.

In fact.

He.

Scott was having a little trouble in school and Joe had a sports car and told Scott that if he made the honor roll, he would let him take the car for a day.

And.

And he did it.

He did it.

You know, that's a Big promise.

Wow.

So Scott and I went out driving like MGB for the day.

It was pretty fun, but that's, that's how.

And then I had always kind of said, well, you should do this, you should do this.

And so when, when I applied for it, he did the same in, in Seattle.

We were living there by that time and, and his little brother Nate is, was seven, the same, same age.

And Nate is, is kind of.

Mike was this slow potting, moving along kid and Nate is this hyper, happy, active kid and that it was a good match.

They would do stuff occasionally.

But we were still in touch with Nate.

He, he comes down here on a regular basis, he and his wife.

So it's, it's been a great.

Oh, that's nice ride there.

Wow.

So that's really beautiful.

Thank you for coming on today and sharing your story.

Well, thank you for, for being having me here and thanks for all the great work you're doing.

This has been the Foster to Forever podcast.

Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to adopt.

Produced by Aquarius Rising, edited by Jason Serubi at Split Rock Studios.

Original music composed by Joe Fulginetti.

For more information or to stay in touch, visit from foster to forever.com.

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