Navigating the Emotional Rollercoaster of Foster Care

You know, I just, I just walk into the room and I'm like, they're sleeping and they're under my roof and they're safe and they're okay and I can hold them and I can touch them and I can kiss them and I know where they are and they're safe.

That's the big thing.

They're safe.

It's the Foster to Forever podcast.

Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt.

I'm your host, Rachel Fulgenetti.

Hello and welcome to the show.

Marianne.

Marianne, I'm so happy that you decided to come and join us today.

Marianne has a really cool story because she is not actually over the finish line yet.

So on this show so far, we've only had people who have already completed the entire process from Foster to Forever.

And Marianne graciously agreed to come on the show even though she's not there yet because I think it's really valuable for listeners to hear what it's like when you're right there in the middle of it, what's going on, how it feels and all of the above.

So I'm really, really happy to talk to you today.

Thank you for coming.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I have so much to share.

Honestly, I think being stuck in this, like, unknown limbo is a unique kind of torture.

So, yeah, there's no shortage of emotions or feelings here.

That's right.

That's right.

Now, do you have any other children?

Like, do you have biological children or any other children?

Okay.

And as I understand it, you have a sibling set, is that correct?

I do.

Okay.

I have to hear all about this because we, my husband and I actually signed up for that.

We were willing to do a sibling set and then we ended up just getting two different single children.

But I often think, like, oh my God, I'm so glad I need a sibling set because it would be so overwhelming to have two at once.

That said, I think it's incredible, obviously to keep the children together.

That's the biggest thing.

And also for them to have each other and maybe takes the burden off you in some ways, I don't know.

So tell me about that decision and how did you come to fostering?

Yes, this is a very unique.

Well, actually, I don't even think it's unique because I feel like I hear similar situations happen all of the time.

But what happened was I had, I started fostering and I started fostering teenagers.

So my first placement was a 16 year old and her 4 month old baby.

So it was a mutual care placement.

She did not stay very long.

She was with me for about two months and then we kind of had this like very silent period for a while and then she really came back to my life and we're very, very close now, so very involved in her life.

She doesn't live with me, but I see her a ton after her.

I had a 13 year old girl for about seven months, very tumultuous.

Seven months after that she left on a not so great note.

We had been talking adoption and some of her mental health and diagnoses and attachment issues just would not let her get over that hurdle.

So it was really heartbreaking for me when she left because I would have been there forever, so I would have kept taking it.

But at the end of the day, my friend always says that we want to get these kids exactly where they want to be and if that's not with us, then you know that then it's not with us.

So right after she left, I had a really close friend.

She is a foster parent and she's amazing.

She is in her 70s and she only takes young like newborns.

So she had a five month old at the time and I had known him since he was about a month old.

I did respite for her often.

She lived up the street and she asked me, she said, you know, it's looking like things are not going towards reunification here.

I am obviously not an adoptive option since I am, you know, because of my age.

So would you be willing, you know, he knows you.

And I was kind of like, holy crap.

You know, I was grieving this path that I was on with a different child.

I'm a single foster parent, so it's just me.

So there's no one to be like, hey Marianne, take a beat.

You know, so, yeah, I mean, you know, like, well, I love him.

You know, they're looking for somebody that, you know, they're potentially looking for somebody that they can move him to and okay, why not?

So I started taking him like unofficially like on the weekends and whenever I could.

I work a full time job from home mostly, but I would take whatever I could just to kind of grow that relationship with him and sure see kind of where things would go.

And so eventually he did move to me as a.

It's really hard to say this now, but they, they kind of framed it as a foster to adopt situation.

But I did not know the extent of how little had been done on his case until he was in my home and I was listening to hearings and talking to gals.

And realizing that no parent had even been adjudicated at this time.

So there was no adoption.

There was no.

I mean, there was no.

No progress had been made on his.

Okay, let.

Let's back up just a little bit, just so that the listeners.

Gil.

What's a Gil.

Guardian.

Yeah.

So that is the child's attorney.

I see.

Yeah.

So there was not an appointed attorney for the child.

He had an appointed attorney, but parents did not have attorneys.

Parents had not court.

There was really no progress that had been made.

So when he came to my home, he.

It was April of 2023, and he was 8 months old, and nothing had been done legally.

So the adjudication is when they determine that, yes, this child needs to be in foster care.

Is that correct?

Am I right about that?

It's really hard to define what it means in dependency and neglect court, because.

Because it's not.

There is no guilty or innocent.

Right.

There's just charge and there's.

Is this child dependent and neglected?

Basically.

There had been no determination.

I mean, there had been, you know, enough that they were keeping him in foster care, but there had been nothing done within the court to sign treatment plans to.

To do anything to start that reunification process.

And that's very unusual.

I mean, that.

That.

Yeah.

What.

What state are you in?

I'm in Colorado, and I'm going to tell you right now.

He just turned to.

And we still adjudicated one of the parents.

Wow.

Is it because they can't find.

Find the parents?

Like, okay, they know where they are.

It's just.

And they're involved.

It's just that it has not followed any of the normal legal pathways.

Okay.

So it's been quite a mess, honestly.

And emotional whiplash, for sure.

So he came to me, and I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, like, we're on this road to adoption.

Like, they, Like.

I thought, you know, this had all been done, that they had changed the goal from reunification to adoption, you know.

Right.

Like, it would be a few months.

Like, you know, I.

Usually in the state of Colorado, you have to have a child for six months before you can adopt.

So I knew that we'd at least have that timeline.

But I was beginning.

And I mean, foster parents, like, we're not experts on the legal side of things.

I've had to learn on the fly this whole time, and the more I learn, the more I'm just like, oh, my God, nothing has been handled the way that it should have been.

So, you know, he comes to me at 8 months old and you know, we're just adjusting.

I got laid off like a month after he got placed with me.

So, yeah, so that was a big, oh, gosh, what am I going to do?

You know, I heard kind of daycare, and now I'm like, guess I don't need a daycare for.

Because I, you know, I'm a single parent.

So again, my.

My one income.

Luckily, I found something.

I started within six weeks.

I started a new job.

He started daycare.

You know, we're.

Wow, amazing.

Yeah.

He turns 1, you know, and we're just moving along, moving along.

And then I get a call in August and said, hey, guess what?

He has a sister.

She was just born.

They are 13 months apart.

So he.

He.

They placed her with me about four days.

It was over Labor Day.

And then what happened was the intake was not done well for sister.

So they.

There's a TPC hearing, which is temporary placement hearing.

And that's basically where, you know, we'll go to court and they'll say, okay, this child needs to remain in foster care, or whatever reason that we remove the child has been mitigated.

Whatever.

Whatever it is.

And they ended up sending sister back to one of the parents.

So it was a whirlwind.

We half of.

Oh, my gosh, newborn, and you already have a baby and oh my gosh, you need all the newborn things because you did not have brother as a newborn.

Right.

You know, scrambling.

And then also, oh, my God, I'm gonna have two babies and I'm single.

And she can't go to daycare until she's at least 12 weeks old.

So what am I gonna do?

Yeah, help me.

My.

You know, my mom's booking a flight to come out.

My friends are like, we'll be there.

You know, I'm like, I work from home.

I'm.

We're just.

It's like a whole cluster.

I'm like, and what am I doing in the back of my mind the whole time?

I'm like, what am I doing?

But, like, my gut instinct is, no, like, that's his sister, you know, and full sibling.

So, yes, you know, I was like, that's his sister.

And a part of me was also like, oh, my God, a baby girl.

Right?

Like, I mean, I wanted to see her.

I wanted to see what she looked like.

Did she look like him?

You know, and so.

And.

And wow.

Like, I could be there from.

With her from the start.

Like, I didn't have.

Right.

Start.

So.

Right.

You know, it was just a very different experience.

It was Also very interesting, too, because I was like, oh, my gosh.

Like, what does this mean for brother?

Like, this must mean, you know, like, this isn't going.

Like, we're going down this road.

Right.

We're going down this road of he most likely will be with me long term.

Right.

And now I'm gonna have two, and I'm single.

And, like, what does that mean for dating?

What does that mean for, like, having my own biological kids someday?

Like, I'm gonna already have two kids.

So it was a lot.

Wow.

And then she went.

And then it was just like, okay, here we are, back to one.

And, you know, honestly, those four days, I mean, with a newborn, it was, you know, tiring, and I did not feel attached to her.

When she left, I was kind of just like.

Honestly, I want to say it was a little bit of relief because it was a lot.

It was a lot.

I can understand that.

Yeah.

I wanted to do my part for her and for him, but, like, you know, that wasn't my decision to send her back.

So, like.

Right.

You know, I did my part.

I stepped up, but, like, part of me was feeling, okay, wow, like, we can get back to our groove, you know, like, what's going on?

Right.

Right.

It's.

I just want to pause for a moment and just acknowledge how incredibly just life up ending something like that must be and is.

I mean, I know what it's like just for the one.

Right at a time to bring one home, but then to juggle that and then have a new one in the mix and then try to just emotionally be like, okay, we're gonna do this, let alone logistically and, like, all the other things that your brain is thinking about all at once, but just handling that.

And then it's like, four days later, it's like, oh, no.

Okay.

Yeah.

And that is foster care.

Like, it's just such a roller coaster and for everyone.

And you really have to be someone who's very resilient and able to just roll with.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was thinking, especially for you as a single person, big support system.

I'm so glad to hear that you do have a support system of friends and your mom, because, like, how do you do it?

I mean, once I became a parent, I was just like, single parents.

Like, I bow down to single parents because it's so much.

So anyway, I just want to, like, put that out there.

This is.

That's a lot.

I could not do this without the amazing support network that I have.

And I don't have any family that Lives locally.

So it's really just this foster community of friends that I've built that have been like, yeah, if you're going to do this, do it.

We're here.

And, you know, I think same level of crazy that I do.

So they're like, yeah, we're going to do this, you know, and yes, my family's like, are you sure?

Right, right.

So it's kind of this, like, my family's like, what are you doing?

And then I have these people that are like, hey, if you're doing this, amazing, we'll help you.

If you're not also amazing, like, whatever you want to do.

So, you know, I love that I can try, and that's all.

All I can do.

So.

Right.

But yeah, how did you get connected to this foster?

Because that's one thing I really wish I had had going through it.

I didn't really know anybody else who was fostering to adopt at the time or even just fostering.

And it was difficult going through those years without having anyone else who had that same lived experience that I was having.

You know, I had friends, I had support, but nobody who was really going through it.

How did you find that?

Did you make a conscious effort to build that or.

Yes, yes and no.

Like, I mean, some of a lot of this came to be when I had my second kiddo.

She was 13, and she was really, really tough.

Um, really emotionally draining.

I mean, just, you know, it's so different the teenagers versus babies.

Right?

Like, I mean, they're both hard, but the emotional toll that comes with older kids and.

And some of the behaviors and things that they know and things that they understand and the things that.

Things that they do are just like, you know, sure.

It's less of the, like, physical labor and more of the emotional toll.

Right.

So I really, really needed support.

And we.

I have a great.

I have a great group of people.

And it's really hard to pinpoint how we all became connected, but I think some of it was looking for respite and then meeting people and then meeting friends of friends.

But ultimately I fell into this group of women as the really the only single provider.

Everyone else is married.

They just kind of.

We just.

We just have this amazing community.

I love them all.

I found like, my son, soulmate, best friend in this group, and she is awesome.

Oh, my God, I.

I could cry talking about it because at the end of the day, if any, whatever comes of foster care, like, I met her, I met my person, so I couldn't do any of this.

Without Emily.

So I'm going to cry.

Oh, that's so beautiful.

I love that.

Shout out to Emily.

We love you.

Thank you.

We joke that we're, you know that she's my sister wife and I borrow her husband for house projects sometimes.

But she is the best.

And she had some tough teens and now it's kind of funny because we're both in this baby phase together.

16 month old and a 8 month old and then she also has a 10 and 11 year old and a 19 year old.

So like, you know, now we're in this baby phase together and it's just a completely different like hard and.

Yeah, yeah, we just, it's just we're so aligned and like what is going on and our personalities and the things that like really trigger us and emotionally like drive us and why we keep doing this.

So she's my person.

If I didn't have her to connect with every day over the littlest things or the biggest things, like, yeah, so amazing.

Yeah.

And she was like, yeah, we're going to do this, we're going to figure this out.

Like, take sister.

And I did.

And then she left and it was like, okay, we're going to continue on and see what happens.

And the interesting thing was once sister went home, part of me was terrified because I was like, well, what does this mean for brother?

Because I really did not think the reunification or the return home was going to last.

I also did not think it was safe.

I think that there were, there are a lot of missteps by the county and so it was really scary.

They really pushed brother home in the next two months after that.

So without, with very, very little visits, with very, with zero transition, they sent him home in November.

So sister was born in August, brother got sent home in November.

Again, just for the listeners, when you say with very little transition, you mean like there weren't like visits ahead of time so that he could get used to it?

Nothing.

Yeah.

I honestly felt like there was some retaliation against me because I had been so vocal about being scared about him being sent home.

There were business weren't happening, nothing was done to show sobriety.

There was just a lot that had not taken place.

And it was about to be Thanksgiving time and they wanted me to do all these transports and I was like, it's my holiday too, you know.

And yeah, I'm happy for them to have these visits but like, I need some professionals involved here because this is a lot on me.

And so they got pretty upset and they dropped him off one Night and said he was leaving the next day.

Oh, my God.

So he left on a Friday, and I got the kids back on Tuesday, both of them, and I've had them ever since.

Whoa.

What happened in those days?

Like, what happened?

It was a wild three days.

So he left on a Friday.

And, you know, I had.

I called everybody that was near and dear to us, that knew him, knew me, and I said, you know, like, come over.

Come say goodbye.

You know, I'm packing up his things.

It honestly felt like a wake, like a funeral for someone who was living.

You know, we all cried and hugged him and took pictures and, oh, my God.

And my house was full, and it was emotional.

And, you know, when I had to hand him over, it was, like, so soul crushing.

And how old was he at this point?

He was probably.

I think he's 14 months.

Okay.

So he.

He doesn't know what's going on.

Like, he.

He has no concept of that.

All of a sudden, he's not going to see you.

Yeah.

Anymore.

And meanwhile, like, his first foster mom, Sharon, she was heavily involved with him even after he came to me.

So we call her Grammy and mama.

And so he was never.

He never lost any of those attachments, and he was about to lose all of us, and there was no attachment where he was going.

Like, there.

It just hadn't been.

There hadn't been time.

Right.

So we were really scared for him.

And three days later, on Monday, I get a call that the kids are back in foster care and do I want them back?

And of course, yes.

Like, bring me my babies.

Yeah.

Like, immediately, please.

And, you know, we had to go through all this red tape and hoops, and basically the team was still pretty upset with me for how vocal I was.

But I'm not gonna lie.

At the end there, I was already losing the worst thing, and I was already going through the worst thing.

I was scared for him.

And turns out I was right.

They didn't want to hear that, but I was right.

And.

And I understand that legally, they did not have the evidence.

They can't go off of a hunch.

I understand.

But, like, deep down, like, my gut knew that this was.

Yeah.

And.

And it didn't last.

And I want to say, like, it did not last very long, thank goodness.

Because.

Right.

Because I don't know what would have happened if eyes weren't still involved.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was really scary.

So I got them back right before Thanksgiving.

Sister was about two and a half months old, and brother was about just almost 15 months.

And I've had them ever since.

So nothing has changed really.

Court wise.

We're still going through the motions.

It's looking more and more like this is going to be a long term thing.

I don't know, though.

Another complexity of this case is that it's an ICWA case.

It's an Indian Child Welfare act case, which adds a lot of extra requirements.

And can you explain to the listeners what that is if they don't know?

I'm not native, so I'm not the preferred placement for these kids.

Right.

Preferred placement would obviously always be kin and then.

And then a native foster home.

Yes.

And unfortunately, I haven't been able to find either one of those.

There are very, very few native foster homes.

I think they said the tribe has like one and it's not even in the state of Colorado.

And then kin hasn't been an option.

So they're okay with me being the placement while they make active efforts to find kin or a native foster home.

Right.

It's very difficult.

So, you know, it's also.

We're getting to the point now where a brother has been with me for more than half his life.

He just turned 2, and so there's a very, very strong attachment there.

And, you know, there have been some things that have happened in the last few months and on that brief return home that have caused some really big behaviors and trauma for him.

And so, like, I just really think it would be detrimental to move him at this point.

Yes.

A lot of attachment issues come from before a child turns two and only get exacerbated as they get older.

And the more moves that are made and the more big changes in the lack or in loss of attachments.

So I really do think his team is aligned on minimizing that as much as possible, especially for sister as well, because she's had some back and forth too, very early on and, mm, she's doing really great.

She's.

She's an angel baby.

She is very, go with the flow.

Very, very sweet.

She's 11 months now.

And, you know, brother is more of my.

He's also a toddler, so I had to say, I don't know, hard to separate toddler and trauma because some of the behaviors are very similar.

Right.

So it's.

It's definitely.

It's definitely a busy time in my life right now.

Right.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And it's just me, so.

And I've also kind of been on the fence about exploring some of my own fertility stuff and whether I'd like to have My own child biologically using a donor.

And so like, it's, it's kind of like, when do I do that?

You know, am I waiting for this to be finalized or am I going to be waiting forever?

Like, right, do this or, you know, and then dating with two kids that might not be mine ever, but they.

Might like it's right.

It's a very difficult place to be.

We, I live in the day to day as much as possible.

I try not to plan too far ahead in the future.

Every milestone I get to see is celebrated.

But it's also bittersweet because I don't know if I'll see the next birthday or, you know, the next thing.

It's a really hard line to walk.

I feel very selfish sometimes of never wanting to have to say goodbye again, but also knowing that if, if I don't what they're losing, it's a very hard juggling act.

And you know, emotionally, like, of course I don't ever want to not be in their life, but, you know, it's a very real possibility and it's also a very real possibility that they won't go anywhere.

So preparing for both outcomes while doing the day to day parenting and the services and my job and running a household and daycare drop offs and pickups and grocery shopping and doctor's appointments, it's a lot.

It's a lot.

It is a lot.

I am just, I feel it so much.

Like everything you're saying and I had a partner to do it with, so I just, I feel you so hard.

I'm exhausted for you.

And like, I also just, I want to just like say it's amazing what you're doing and someday you'll look back at this and be like, man, how the hell did I do that?

You know?

But like, you do it, you just, you just do it and, and somehow you get through it.

Waiting for like the text message or call of like something else crazy, you know, like, like, you know, we're getting to the point.

Your sister's about to be a year old.

I'm like, is there going to be another baby?

Like, I can't take any, right?

No.

Yeah.

No kidding, huh?

Yep.

What else is going to happen?

What else, what would you do if.

There was another baby?

I don't know.

I really don't know.

Like, I don't call Emily.

She's full up at this point.

She's got five kids.

Like, we're full.

We got a lot of babies between my friends and I, but it's, it's just.

I don't even know.

I don't know what I would do.

It's.

Yeah, it's really hard.

I love their relationship.

I love seeing them together and I love, you know, it was a hard adjustment so for my little boy because he was, it was just me and him for a long time.

Sure.

He went from overnight becoming a big brother, and then, then she left and then she came back and it.

Yep, very confusing.

Yeah, super confusing.

Super confusing.

It's.

It's no wonder, you know, he struggles the way that he does.

And, you know, I just had the conversation with Emily this morning.

I'm like, I don't know if I'm the best thing for him.

You know, like, I want to be.

Like, I want to be.

And I, and I do my absolute best, but like, yeah, don't know what else he needs.

And I'm.

And she's like, well, you're his mom and he loves you and you love him.

And I'm like, I, I know, but there's.

There's so much attention and one on one and services and things that place for one child and now everyone that is about to enter toddlerhood and what will she need?

You know, and.

Yeah, it's a lot.

It's a lot to juggle and it's a lot to say, well, you know, what is trauma?

What is in utero experience, what is temperament?

What is my home and my parenting.

And, you know, and it's a lot.

So it's.

I.

Yeah, everything you're saying, it's so complex.

It really is.

And another complexity is that as they get older into toddlerhood and whatever, things start to emerge.

Right.

So other things can start to emerge or different, you know, different things.

And then that becomes another thing that you will deal with.

And I actually often thought to myself, on the positive side, it's really nice that there's a lot of eyes and there's like a lot of services and there's a lot of people involved because, for instance, my daughter was diagnosed with autism at like 4.

And that was a wonderful thing that she was diagnosed so early so that we really knew how to start getting her services and like relating to her and doing our own education, all this stuff.

Whereas a lot of girls in particular go undiagnosed until they're, you know, 9, 10, 11, and then at that point they've had a lot of trauma around, feeling like they didn't fit in and what's wrong with me?

And all of this stuff.

So I do think that that part of it is good.

Yeah.

They both have been involved in an early intervention and PT and OT and speech and everything that.

Anything that I can get them, like, I'm like, give me all the services.

Yes, me too.

Yes.

Because I want them to have everything at their disposal.

And I mean, same with myself.

I mean, I do weekly therapy.

You know, I have the support network.

Like, we can't do this in a.

In a silo.

Like, totally need so much and.

Yeah, it's.

It's a lot to manage, though.

The appointments and the.

Yes.

Oh, my God.

Levels and.

Yeah.

Making sure you fill out the form every time you.

They see somebody.

You know, you have to make sure.

At least in LA it was like that, you know, every time you go to the doctor, do you have the form?

You got to have the doctor fill out the form and, you know, like, all this stuff because everything has to be logged and.

Yes, this just all of the extra things that parents don't have to do if they're not foster parents.

Right.

Totally.

For everything.

I can't make a lot of decisions.

So I think going out of state, if you want to go on vacation somewhere, it's like, you got to get that court approval.

You have to.

So it's nice.

Yeah, it's.

It's that, you know, took a while.

I was like, I'm not sure if they're going.

You know, are they able to go?

They went.

You know, and you're right.

We're trying to plan these things.

And it's.

Yeah, it's.

It's a lot.

It is.

I.

I often say it was like a master class in living in the moment.

Like, because you just have to learn, like we have right now.

We're together right now.

I know.

I.

All is well.

That's all you can.

That's all you can.

You can.

Can do.

And I'm laying there in bed at night and I'm thinking about, like, what if, you know, I just.

I just walk into the room and I'm like, they're sleeping and they're under my roof and they're safe and they're okay, and I can hold them and I can touch them and I can kiss them and I know where they are and they're safe.

That's the big thing.

There are some stuff that you see as a foster parent, and there's definitely some secondhand trauma and, you know, what could happen.

And you hear stories and it's scary.

And I actually had a friend text me today that a little baby that she knew is actually the sibling of her adopted son.

Passed away over the weekend.

She had time for a few, few weekends to help out and then he had gone back to Biomom and passed away unexpectedly.

And oh my gosh, that's the kind.

Of stuff that like, keeps you up at night, you know, when you send kids back and don't know, the stability continues and don't know what's happening and.

Right.

You know, when I said goodbye to them in November, I had no idea when I would see them next, if I ever would.

And it happens just so that it was three days later.

So unbelievable.

Wow.

What was that like when you got.

You must have just been like, what it was.

It was emotional whiplash to the max.

And I don't think I had truly felt like the full weight of him leaving before I got the call that he was coming back because I was just so numb.

Right.

Just like, I didn't know what to do.

And at the time, my very first foster daughter was living with me briefly.

They were waiting for her apartment to get ready, so she and her daughter were living with me.

So I was so happy that I had kids around still.

MOM ON because, like, I didn't know how to go from being a mom to not being a mom.

Yeah.

And it was so nice to have her around and have like.

Because there were toys around and I was like, what do I do?

Just like, get rid of them all.

So it was nice to have them around still and have her play with them and like.

Because I was about to just like purge my whole house.

Right.

See it, you know, and before I could do that, he came back.

So it was wild.

And then I had them for Thanksgiving and the holidays, which is such a different holiday time than I thought I was going to have.

Yes.

Yeah.

It was very confusing and also relieving and sad at the same time and also like, holy crap, what could have happened?

Right, Right.

Also, how did this happen?

You know, like, how.

How did this happen so quickly?

Right.

How did it happen that quickly?

Did they go there and see that there was something unsafe happening in the home or what?

How did that happen?

Ended up getting arrested.

Ah, okay.

Yeah.

And yeah.

So I don't want to share too much.

I don't know what I can't share.

No, no, no problem.

Unfortunately, like.

Yeah.

And it was interesting because originally the police had gone there looking for somebody else and it was just like, oh, my God, like, the events that had to happen to happen so quickly was mind boggling.

Right?

Yeah.

And I will never forget like, when they dropped him back off at my house that night, and I was just like, where is my baby?

You know, and just.

And just seeing him again and being able to hold him on, I literally had been, like, feeling like he had died, part of me had died, you know, like.

Sure.

You were grieving someone still alive.

Yeah.

So it's been.

I'm trying to think.

It's been about nine months since then.

Okay.

You know, we're just chugging along.

Every month, every week is like, okay, we did it.

Now on to the next one.

You know, you want that time to pass in a way, because.

And this is what was told to me is like, you know, because ours were, like, taking so long.

We were like, why is it taking so long?

And then I, I.

The lawyer was like, honestly, you.

You want it to take a long time because you want to make sure by the time, like, you've had them for so long.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

A lot of what their guardian ad litem will say is like, we want to do this right and we want to do it right the first time so that if there ever.

That's right.

Like, there's no way that this can be turned over.

Yeah.

That was the other thing they said.

Yep.

Give it time now and, you know, let it work itself out.

And that's really hard.

It's really, really hard to.

To wait.

It's really hard to wait for each hearing.

It's really hard for me to listen to hearings.

I can't anymore.

And my friend Emily will listen to them for me and give me the highlights.

When you say listen, you mean, like, you're calling in and you're, you're virtually, like, on the call.

Okay.

And I, I just can't do it anymore.

I let, I let someone else listen and give me the notes, the Cliff Notes.

And it just, it stirs up so much anxiety and stress for me.

Like, hearing it, I just, like, it's like, I just want to live under a rock until I have to face it.

And just.

Because it's so hard to get bogged down by that so stuff.

And I just need, I need to do the day to day.

The day to day.

I need to do the taking care of them part and not get stuck in the what if and right.

You know, the fear.

And.

Yeah, court was so hard for me.

Like, court was always the, the court days were the hardest days.

And, and back in that.

This is before the pandemic with my daughter.

So we were showing up physically, and I went to every Single court date.

And I would be so filled with anxiety.

Like, I cannot even describe.

Like, I feel it ye PTSD.

I had like, oh, my God.

Yeah, 100%.

It was very, very difficult.

I'm wondering, have you applied?

Or are you.

Do you have de facto status or is that a thing in Colorado or anything like that?

Remember what it's called?

It's when you become a party to the case and you can.

Colorado, the kids have to be placed with you for at least a year before you can.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

It has it.

It's been long enough for brother, but I have not done it just because I don't think that it's going to give me any information that I don't already get.

And then also I just think that it would cause problems.

It's a very fuzzy thing doing that because it's kind of.

It's kind of like working against the parents in a way.

Like, I don't.

I don't want to do that.

I don't want to cause any unnecessary rift.

I mean, we.

I don't sure don't have a very.

I don't have a very open relationship with them anyway.

Okay.

I really don't communicate with either of them.

It's pretty much all through visitation or worker and.

And guardian ad litem.

And I think it's just for the best that way.

I've tied in the past and I just.

It's just too difficult at this point in time.

And I think obviously the longer this gets dragged on, and I have a lot of guilt around that too, because it makes me feel like a bad foster parent, you know, not wanting to have that, like, partnership with them.

And a lot of it is just I'm dealing with some of my own frustrations and anger and fear and of what these kids have gone through.

And, yeah, it's really hard.

And, you know, brother's getting to the age now where, like, things are going to need to start being explained to him in more detailed ways.

And I'm navigating how to do that.

And honestly, right now there's nothing to say because there's no plan.

Right.

So, like, it's just very difficult.

Right.

So the parental rights have not been terminated yet.

Okay.

And have they been offered services and that kind of thing?

Okay.

And are they following up on the services?

Like, are they doing the services?

Okay.

And how many times has there been a court date since they are not following up on the services?

Like, do you know what I mean?

Like, for us, it was like several.

Court dates for One of the parents, it's been longer.

For the other parent, it's been shorter.

It's also been different for each kid because their ages.

So.

But the only consistent thing is they're consistently not engaging in those gotcha.

Or attending court or being consistent with visits.

So I see there's a lot that's not happening.

Right.

But then there's so much of the legal process that needs to play out a certain way before anything can happen.

So it's not that no one's doing their job right now.

It's just that, like, things have to play out in a certain timeline.

Yep.

Yeah.

And unfortunately, things should have happened faster for brother, but his case was not handled well.

I mean, we've.

We're on our fourth caseworker for him.

Second jail, second judge.

We're about to go to a third judge.

So, like, the turnover is massive.

You know, the court docket is so full, they tried to get the hearing.

We have a big hearing coming up in a couple of months.

And it was.

They tried to plan.

They tried to plan it for July, but the court docket was so full, it's not going to be until September.

So it's stuff like that that's holding up this process is the docket and it's the turnover and it's the amount of cases that these professionals have.

And it's just that part of me feels like they're in a safe home.

And so there's just like, no urgency, you know?

Right, yes, no urgency.

Because they're not living this life.

Right, Right.

You know, they're fine with whatever happens.

Honestly, it's a number.

These things are not to them.

They're okay.

They're on the line here.

Their livelihoods are not on the line here.

Yeah.

And I guess for.

For the people involved, they almost have to, like the social workers and stuff, just sort of detach in that way because otherwise their heart would be breaking every single day, all the time.

You know, like, they just have to develop this sort of, like, hard kind of detachment.

But it's so difficult for the people whose lives are hanging in the balance, like yourself, who's just waiting and doing everything you can in service of this child.

But your life is like, I'm a person too, and I have a life too.

And, like, I've got to get going with my life too.

And, you know, I'll never forget something that my daughter's lawyer, appointed lawyer said in court once that I was just like, oh, thank you.

Cause you can't say anything.

You Know, and you're sitting there in the back.

I'm sitting there in the back.

And things have been postponed and, you know, postponed and post every time.

There's, like, some stupid reason why, you know, it goes on and on and on.

And finally, the lawyer for the county who was representing my daughter was like, you, Honor, this child deserves permanency.

She deserves permanency.

And I was like.

My whole body just was, like, so true.

We all do.

We all deserve permanency.

You know, it has been the ultimate test of patience.

Yeah.

And I would not say I'm a very naturally gifted, patient person.

No, me either.

I.

That was one of my.

I mean, my husband and I are, like, notoriously, like, that's one of our worst things, is that we're both really impatient people.

I'm a planner, so, like.

Yeah.

Something to plan on, please.

Yep.

And.

And a doer.

Like, I.

We're such do.

I'm a real doer.

And, you know, that was, like, such a big spiritual lesson for both of us was just, like, how to let that go.

Like, I can't imagine what the day will feel like.

And I.

And I think about this a lot.

Even if.

If.

Even if they're not with me forever.

Right.

But.

And if they are, like, I can't imagine the day that I'm no longer a foster parent and I'm no longer wondering what will happen.

Yeah.

Because even if it's not.

Even if it's the thing I fear, like, what happened in November when he left, part of me felt relief.

I mean, I was deeply grieving and I was numb, but, like, part of me felt like, I know how this ends now.

Right.

I had been anticipating and wondering and going through the motions and worrying and thinking and saying, like, how am I going to move on from this?

And, you know, and same thing had happened with my previous foster child when she left.

And when she left, it was heartbreaking, and I did not know how I would get through it, and I did.

And a lot of my healing actually came from pouring myself into.

Into my little boy and picking myself up and moving on with him and saying that that wasn't a.

That wasn't an ending.

Like, that wasn't how our story was supposed to end.

She wasn't supposed to be with me.

Right.

And, like, just moving on that way.

And I don't know how I'll do that if they leave.

I really don't know what that looks like.

I think part of why I have these, like, this desire to have my own child and like, know that, like, no one's ever going to take that baby away from me.

That, like, it would just be such a different experience.

Like, even doing.

Oh.

Like, I've already been doing it solo.

So, like, you know, no question there.

I can do it.

You know, but imagine, like, how different it would be to not have anybody needing to approve what I do.

Yes.

Not having to have court, not having to have home visits, not having to have visit visits.

Not having to, you know, fight with doctors because they need certain approvals and wait for approvals from other people to get services in place.

Like, I just can't imagine how much easier it would be to be a parent in that.

In that way.

And I don't even know what that would feel like.

Like, part of me thinks it's never going to come.

Right.

You know, And I called the Guardian ad litem a couple weeks ago and I was like, can you just tell me that this is going to end one day?

Because, like, I'm starting to feel like this is never gonna end.

And she's like, I see why you think that.

And it will end at some point.

And I'm like, when?

She's like, I don't know.

Right.

Me either.

Like, I just wanna know.

I just wanna.

Timeline.

Yeah, I know, I know.

It's maddening.

I felt that exact same way.

And after it happened, like, I cannot even tell you the relief.

Yeah.

That I felt.

And then I was exhausted for like a year.

I couldn't.

I was just like.

Because you're holding so much for so long and, like, you have to be strong and you cannot just, like, break down.

You've got to just keep going.

And, man, it took a while for my husband and I both to just.

Just be able to let go and release all that stress and all of that worry and all of that stu.

It will end.

It will.

And it will be amazing.

And you don't know how it's going to end, but, like, yeah, it's.

Yeah, it's like one hurdle after another.

Like, it just feels like I'm just counting down to, like, the months and I have this, like, hypothetical timeline that I've built in my head.

Right.

So, like.

Because I have to, like, comprehend it.

Right.

What is the timeline?

Share the timeline in your head.

I'm curious if it goes according to.

My plan or what I'm thinking in my head.

In September, I think I know how that's going to go.

And they're going to give it about 60 to 90 days.

It would normally be 30 to 60 days.

But they're saying thinking 60 to 90 days because of ICWA, so give it a little bit more time.

So this is the thing.

Everything that you do gets just a little bit more, you know, like a little bit.

A little bit more help, a little bit more support, more active efforts is what they call it.

Okay.

So probably 60 to 90 days.

So that's, you know, October to November to December.

Oh, here's the problem.

It's the holidays.

Yeah.

How things happen during the holidays, they just don't happen during.

That's right.

You know, court doesn't happen.

And professionals don't do things as well because everybody's out and busy and so I don't know, let's get into 2025.

Like maybe, maybe we'll motion to terminate rights in like January, February, if.

Yeah, if what's happening now continues to happen.

Right.

There's also the possibility that things turn around.

Right.

So if that happens in January, February, and they try to get a court date before that hearing, which could be days.

I was a CASA before I was a foster parent and okay, I sat through a TBR hearing for one of my kids and it was a four day hearing.

Say what CASA is a court appointed special advocate.

So I, you know, I sat through their TPR hearing and it was four days long.

So.

Wow, four days on a court docket takes a long time to get.

So, you know, why was it four days?

Was it a trial as opposed to just a judge making a determination?

Okay, yeah.

So.

So that took four days.

And you know, if it's going to, I assume the way that this case has gone that everything is going to be contested.

So I would assume that if, if they did go to trial for that, it wouldn't be until like May of next year.

And then we need to factor in like an appeals process which can take up to a year.

So now we're in 2026.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

And then you gotta wait for an adoption date.

You know, you gotta negotiate adoption.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So.

So I'm, it's.

I don't anticipate this ending anytime soon.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Thank you for walking us through that.

And by 2026, little brother will be turning four and little sister will be turning three.

I mean, that's a long time in foster care.

It is a long time.

And when do you decide to, if you can, to get a lawyer?

Like, is it, is it.

It was suggested to us to not get.

You don't get a lawyer because it's looked at as too aggressive, and it's too.

You know.

However, my feeling at a certain point was, you know what?

This is my child at this point.

I need to fight for my child.

And, like, no one is in this equation for me.

And for.

And it's a dicey thing.

Cause I know.

I know.

I know it's all about reunification, but when that child doesn't know any other home for the last two years, the last three years, it becomes sort of like.

I don't know.

I'm just curious about your thoughts about that.

And honestly, financially, like, I just can't do it.

Right.

Like, I just.

I don't.

I don't know how I would do that.

It's.

You know, I'm a single parent of.

You know, I make good money.

I have a good.

I have a good life.

We have a good home.

But, like, I just cannot spend thousands of dollars.

And here's the thing.

I'm not gonna spend thousands of dollars fighting a system that doesn't want me to have them because, like, I don't understand why.

Why.

Who else would be there if not the parents?

Who else?

Because I don't understand, like, a lot of.

A lot of why I wouldn't hire an attorney either, is because of icwa.

Like, I'm never gonna win that.

You know, I'm not native.

And I.

I fully understand why we have ICWA in place.

I understand.

I know that our country's history is abysmal and sad and terrible, and I know why it's in place.

So I'm not gonna fight that, you know, and.

Right.

And I'm not gonna fight against reunification either, because that's also something I'm not gonna win, you know, like.

And so part of me is, like, I can ride this out, and I never want to look my kids in the eye one day and say, yeah, I fought to get you away from your parents because.

Right.

I.

I couldn't say that to them, you know?

Right.

Right.

However.

Yeah.

Devil's advocate.

And I'm sorry to interrupt, but if it's unsafe for them to be there.

And that's where I'm.

I'm letting the system.

I don't fully trust it, but I'm letting the system play out.

And, you know, I.

I consulted with attorneys back in November when they were trying to send him home really quickly, and there's nothing I could do at that point.

And that's what the attorney told me.

There was nothing I could do at that point.

Okay?

And so I was loud and honestly, not always the Most polished version of myself.

And I'm never going to be a professional foster parent in that regard.

Like there.

No one trains you how to do that.

No one trains you how to separate this legal system from your emotions or these children.

Right, right.

I'm never going to be good at that because it's all intertwined.

You know, I read a statement actually during a hearing and I cried through the whole thing.

But the judge let me read it and I was so appreciative that she let me read it because I knew that like it didn't necessarily matter like what I said, but I needed to be said.

And I wish the parents had heard it because they were non court, of course, but I wish they had heard it because I just want them to know what their kids are going through.

But I was glad I said it and I was glad I said it on the record because that was all I could do at that time.

And all I could do was be loud for them.

It was.

And then, you know, I got myself in a little bit of trouble being pretty loud.

But like I said, I was at the point where I was about to lose the most important thing to an unsafe situation and I really did not care.

Like, right, like scold me, fire me from being a foster parent, do all you want.

Like, I don't need to be a foster parent.

I have a full time job.

So like, if you don't want someone to advocate and fiercely advocate loudly for these kids, right then I'm not your girl, you know, so I'm not gonna play, not gonna play this game, you know, So I was as loud as I could be.

At the end of the day, things did work out in a way.

That's for the children and they are back home.

And I groveled and did all the apologies I had to do to get them back here, you know, I played the game and I continue to play the game, but there's.

I'll be loud if I have to, you know, and I'll be enjoying.

Right.

So there's, there's only so much I can do, but I just don't, I don't want to fight a system that is against me, you know, all I want to do is make sure that like, that the kids are getting what they need.

And right now they are, you know, they're getting their services, they're in a safe home, they're going to daycare, you know, they're shielded from what I'm seeing.

Yeah, for the most part, you know, so that's all that I can do right now.

It's hard, but I want.

If I'm gonna spend thousands of dollars on anything, it's gonna be them and it's gonna be my family and it's gonna be the baby that I have.

You know, biologically, I just don't want to fight a system that I can't win.

And it's really sad that foster parents feel so powerless, but the legislation that keeps getting passed is again repeating that we are nothing to the system.

They need us so desperately, but we are nothing to them.

You know, and it's.

It's wild.

It's wild that we sign up for this abuse because that's what it is.

But we do it for the kids so that they don't have to.

Right?

But we are abused.

We are abused regularly, consistently.

Thank you for your candor.

I mean, really, thank you.

Thank you.

Because it is.

It's really un.

Toxic relationship.

Yes, it's toxic.

Yes.

It's like, you know, when I was going into it, I was like, okay, I'm entering into like an alcoholic relationship right now and the county is the alcoholic.

Like, I have to just remember.

And I'm a long term member of a program for friends and family of alcoholics.

So I was just like, I have to work my program around just the county, because the county is a big alcoholic.

And I know what they're like, you know, I gotta.

And it's hard because, like, you love these kids and you just want the best for them.

And I'm not here to steal anybody's baby.

I just want what's best for them.

And you know, it's.

It's a really hard line to walk because foster parents can be painted so evilly and then we can be.

It's so saintly.

And I am both of those things, I'm sure, you know, Right.

I'm only a human, like.

And I think part of what foster care asks of foster parents is to like transcend being human.

And I just can't do that.

Like, I.

Yes, I wish I could.

I wish I could turn off the emotion when I need to.

I wish I could stay detached, but.

But also get too attached, you know, but not so attached that you want to adopt them.

Like, we don't want to do that.

Like, Right.

But if we need you to, then we do want that.

Be there.

Be there as an option.

Can you stay on the back burner but also not want it, you know, like, and it's like, how.

How do I do that?

It's unrealistic.

Yeah.

So I'm constantly beating myself up.

Like, you know, I feel guilty for wanting them, and I feel guilty, you know, for having anger towards the system and the bio parents.

But I also feel empathy, and I'm also really sad for my kids for what they're going through, and I hate it.

I hate it for them.

Yeah.

I came from a very traditional upbringing.

Parents that I'm very much so still very close to and were very present in my childhood.

And so seeing this, it's like, I know what it should be, you know, so it's heartbreaking.

But I also, at the end of the day, like, I mean, I'm going to be.

I'm a little selfish.

Like, I love them and I don't want to see them go.

I want to see them have a really good shot at a really good life.

And I think I can give that to them.

Right.

It's not going to come easy.

And, you know, it's going to be a lot of work and a lot of therapy and a lot of services and a lot of my own mental shifts and adjusting to, you know, how I communicate to them and.

And how we involve their parents in the future and, you know, what that looks like and.

Right.

Things are explained to them and.

And that, you know, I can't even think about that right now fully because I'm like, I don't.

I don't even know if we're gonna get there.

So, like, you know, granted, like, coming to a close in the case would be one thing, but then that opens up this whole new obstacle of how do we speak to our kids?

How do we honor their origins, you know?

Right.

How.

How do you take this weighty, weighty task and make sure that you do it justice for them?

And it's like, I.

It's just a.

It's a lot coming at me from every angle of the guilt and the heaviness and the, like, responsibility that you feel towards these kids.

Yeah.

And I'm the one up at night thinking about it.

That's right.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you're doing the best you can, and that's all you can do.

That's what we can do as humans.

We can do the best that we can.

You know, you're not superhuman.

You're.

You're.

You're a person, and you're doing the best you can.

And it sounds like you're doing an amazing job.

Thank you.

Really.

I'm trying.

A lot of coffee helps in therapy.

Yeah, no kidding.

Right before I let you go, just wondering if you have any words of wisdom or insight for anyone who might be interested in embarking on this journey that hasn't taken the plunge yet, what would you say to them?

I don't think this is going to sound bad at first, but I don't think I would.

I don't know if I would have gone into this knowing everything that I know now.

So maybe ignorance is key in this.

You know, I was very idealistic when I started, right.

And part of me still has some of those ideals, but I've also, you know, I've been beaten down a little bit.

At the end of the day, though, the kids are why, you know, you have to have a pretty strong reason to keep putting up with the abuse and the toxic cycles and the pressure and the stress and the emotion and it's the kids.

Because if I can take that from them, I will do it every day.

Yeah, I got you.

I got you.

I hear you loud and clear and it's true.

And I'm just wondering.

And now I know I should end it there because that was a perfect place to end.

But I have to.

You're so interesting to talk to and you just have such a wealth of experience.

Experience that I don't want to let you go.

And I know you probably have to go.

But when you were coming into it, like, how did you.

Did you always know that you wanted to do something like this or was it like, oh, I don't have a partner and I'm looking for.

Well, no, because you weren't even looking to adopt at that point.

You were just fostering, Right?

How did you decide that you wanted to do that?

You know, it's kind of funny.

I.

I moved to Colorado.

I'm from, I'm from Maryland originally from the East Coast.

I moved to Colorado in 2017 and I was really just like trying to build a life for myself here.

I moved for my job and, you know, it was pretty lonely.

I didn't know anybody in Colorado.

And, you know, I was doing therapy at the time and one.

And actually my therapist at the time, I have a different therapist now, but the therapist at the time was like, hey, have you ever looked into, like, I wanted to do something with kids.

I've always loved kids.

I have three nephews and I have a niece.

And I just, you know, I've always loved kids.

And so she was like, have you looked into being a casa, a court appointed special advocate?

And I was like, no.

And, you know, I kind of thought about it and I did.

I went through the whole process.

I became a casa.

I was a CASA for two years, but I just saw so much in those two cases that I was on that I just felt like I wasn't doing enough, and I wanted to do more.

And then part of me, too, I always wanted to be a mom.

And at this point, I was 29 at this point, and I was like, you know what?

Like, I've always wanted to be a mom.

Covid hit.

And I was like, well, it's really hard to date during a global pandemic.

What's keeping me from being a mom in some capacity?

You know, I have the time, I have the income.

I had to buy a house, which I did.

And so I had the extra bedroom.

So that took some time.

You know, I really had to get things in a row.

Right.

I did the training, I did the, you know, the background checks, I did the classes, I did the home.

The home studies.

And.

And so I was actually licensed, I think it was.

I want to say it was the fall of 2021, so.

So I've been a foster parent for going on three years now.

So I.

I got licensed, and I was just, like, so excited.

I was like, just give me a placement.

Everyone's like, don't be excited.

That means a kid is going into foster care, and that's a bad thing.

And I.

So ready to help, you know, like, right.

Eager.

And so.

And I didn't get any calls, and I was like, no one's calling.

What's calling?

So I ended up, like, perusing the portal every day, and I saw Nevaeh, which is my.

My love.

She is my first daughter.

And so I was like, I'm interested.

She was 16 with her own baby.

And I was like, it's kind of the best of both worlds.

Like, you know, I get to have that baby fixed, but I can help her be a good mom and give her a safe, like, spot to land.

And I was so, like, excited.

You know, she came and she lived with me, and, you know, she hasn't had a great track record with foster parents.

And so we became really close, and she kind of had this brief period of, like, you're doing everything for me and helping me out, and I don't trust it.

And she left, came back later, and we're so close now.

It's, like, even closer.

And it just.

It just.

It's like the best foster care ending that could be.

She's almost 19 now.

She actually has two kids.

She has a second baby, but she's got her own apartment and she's working full time, and I'm just so proud of her.

But yeah, that's.

That's kind of how I got into it.

So it was just really like I wanted to be.

I knew I wanted to be a mom.

Yeah.

I wasn't to wait.

I saw that there was an opportunity and it was just like putting your foot, like one step in front of the other, you know, and going through the process of getting certified.

And then all of a sudden you're like, you had a kid at your doorstep and kind of like get sucked into this world and it becomes part of your identity and your friends are foster parents.

And it's like we're this crazy group of people that's always like rotating supplies and doing respite for each other's kids.

And I love it.

I love that part.

Oh, that's beautiful.

That's so cool.

I love that.

I love that community.

That's really.

It does take a village.

And that's just so cool.

If that's the best thing I get from it, like, that's a lot.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

You're amazing.

I would love, love, love to reconnect with you at some point and hear how your story evolved.

Maybe a couple years.

Yeah.

Well, I'm just wishing you all the best and the best for those children and thank you for being on the show.

This has been the Foster to Forever podcast.

Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to adopt.

Produced by Aquarius Rising, edited by Jason Serubi at Split Rock Studios.

Original music composed by Joe Fulginetti.

For more information or to stay in touch, visit From Foster to Forever.com.

that's from Foster, the number two Forever Forever.com.

and stay connected with us on Instagram at Foster to Forever podcast.

That's Foster, the number two Forever podcast.

We'll see you next time.