Called To Foster: An Honest Guide with Jen Lilley and Dr. John DeGarmo

Such an out of body experience. I was meeting all these people around me and it was only one woman that said this, but she goes, oh, yeah.So, you know, yeah, when you adopt, like, and you foster, you want to really get a D rate kid. And I was like, what's a D rate kid? And they said.She said, well, the more you can get them behind in school, the more you can have them on medication. If you can get them to fail their classes and be on medication and have behavioral issues, this is what she said. Like, these are your motivators.Your stipend goes up. She was like, yeah, I have like nine kids. I make like 30 grand a month. And I was like, oh, my God.So there are people like this that exist and we would like to recruit better people because if there were better people, maybe, just maybe they wouldn't approve the people. They're so desperate right now that in 13 states, they're putting them in detention homes.

It's the Foster to Forever podcast. Happy stories of non traditional families born through Foster to Adopt. I'm your host, Rachel Fulgenetti. Hello and welcome to the show.I am so happy to have two former guests back on the show today. Please welcome Dr. John DeGarmo and Jen Lilly.

Thank you. Hi. Thanks for having us back on.

Yeah, I'm so happy to see you both.I want to just tell the listeners, if you want to hear their individual stories, go to season two, and they both have their own episode, so you can hear all about their background and where, you know, how they got into this and everything, all that good stuff. But right now, I want to talk about new stuff, because it is the season of newness.Do tell me what's happening and how come I get to see both of you at the same time.

Well, Jen, I'll let you start.

Okay.I was going to say, well, first of all, you can go back to season two, and then if you get to watch video, you can go to this current season and see how foster care has aged us. We're here today because Dr. John DeGarmo and I co authored a book called An Honest Guide to Getting Started.And this was honestly a brainchild of Dr. DeGarmo. I met him in 20. We were on a CNN episode together. And then he was on my podcast, and we became quick and fast friends.And we basically petitioned Congress together and advocated for children and against premature reunification that's going on in so many states.And while we got a lot of wonderful bipartisan support from both sides of the aisle, we quickly realized while we were there, that laws are wonderful.But sometimes, and oftentimes I would even say if you start a law, there is something in the call in Washington, Christmas treeing, where you can get all these things kind of inserted into your bill because they're like 200, 300 page documents that get slipped in that really undo the work that you're there for. So that was very discouraging. And instead we decided, what could we really do to impact foster care?And we thought we could recruit better foster parents. Now, Dr. DeGarmo has written. Sir, how many books have you written?

Thirteen.

Thirteen.

Wow. And he asked. So he's a very experienced author and asked me for two years to co author with him.And much like this interview, as people will find, I thought, what value could I add? You have a PhD. I'm not completely stupid, but I certainly not an expert.So he wore me down like my kids do, and I decided to co author a book with him. But what really resulted in it is just a. The title is so well suited to this book. I mean, it's called To Foster An Honest Guide to Getting Started.So what you're going to find in the book is, you know, Dr. John is not only a doctor, so he has a lot of wisdom and experience, but he has also walked the foster care journey, as you all know, Rachel. And so he has practical advice as well. But his advice is so rich and so wonderful, it's kind of like drinking out of a fire hose.And then you get little reprieve moments from me where I tell you real life stories where it's the most unglamorous thing in the world, which is funny because if anybody knows me, I'm an actress. And people assume my life is very glamorous, but they're about to find out how raw and real it is.

So I love that. Tell me, is there. Is there a shortage of foster families at this point? And what is. What is that looking like?

Oh, my gosh. It absolutely is a shortage. Jen and I have been reading a lot of stories of light about children who are not being housed.In fact, in the past, there's been this hotel crisis, hoteling, as they've called it. Not enough homes. Where do you place these children in crisis? More? We, you know, we're suffering from a real pandemic of mental health right now.That's the real pandemic, I think. And so many children are in crisis, yet they're not a foster parent. So in the past couple years, children have been sleeping in hotels.You've Heard about that. They're sleeping in offices, but of late, they have been incarcerated in 13 different states because.

Incarcerated. So just like not to blaze over that. Incarcerated guys.

Right, Right. Thank you. Because there's not enough homes. There's simply not enough homes.

No criminal. Sorry, I have to stop. Yeah, I just. I have to stop and just say, what do you mean incarcerated? Like, what do you mean?

They are. They are being placed in incarceration. You know, there's none of homes.

Okay. Juvenile detention home centers.

Right.

These kids have no prior record. Maybe some of them do, but nothing to warrant needing placement in a juvenile detention home ministry.There are two cases that we have heard of where the child actually has autism. So they just need more specialized care. And I'm like a child with autism in a juvenile detention home center where they have to wear the uniforms.They're treated the same as prisoners. They're not getting the mental health they need.And I mean, there's been a shortage of foster parents for as long as I have known, probably from the exception of foster care. But Dr. John would be more up on the stats than me. I am trying to catch up on all the stats. I read a stat the other day. Now, this is unsubstantiated.I have not found the study that is connected with it. This is just what I have heard. Dr. John, if you. If you probably are more up on this. So you correct me, okay. Or shed light on what I'm about to say.I read the other day that since the pandemic began in 2020, and obviously, you guys, we know we're out of the COVID Is not a thing right now, but it's not an unmanageable thing. We're not in a pandemic. But since the shutdown of 2020, there has been a 60% decline or decrease in foster homes.And we already had a severe shortage then. Doctor, seen that statistic.

Yes. And going back to that incarceration story, Senator John Ossoff from.From Georgia and Congresswoman Jen Kagan from Virginia on both sides of the aisle have been shedding light on this very, very disturbing story. Very disturbing story. So again, as Jim mentioned, since the lockdowns of 2020, and we lost a lot of good foster parents during 2020.We lost a lot when the children were being locked down at home with. They were not getting the support services they needed in school. And the child are so behind academically as it is.They're not getting in person counseling and therapy, therapeutical services they desperately needed. They weren't getting in person visitation services and they're at home 24 hours a day with sometimes a brand new foster parent.And they were, they, they were. Their anxiety levels went through the roof. And foster parents were telling me, I'm not a doc, I'm not a teacher, I can't teach these kids.I'm not a therapist or counselor. I can't do virtual visitations five days a week. And I have my own challenges and my anxiety levels through the roof.In addition, our caseworkers weren't able to visit the foster parents or the children of the, you know, because of the situation. So, so many foster parents said, I'm done, I'm out. And we had not seen them come back.

Wow.

That's correct. So there's such a shortage that now apparently in 13 states.And as far as I have researched now, Dr. John and I have been investigating this, I know Dr. John's researched a bit more than I have. The 13 states are not listed in the report. You can basically cross reference and do all sorts of stuff.Thank goodness, with AI, you know, where you're like, let's look at every single case and do and run an analysis on which states it might be. But the 13 states where this is happening have not been named. But there's just a lot of problems going on with foster care.There's always been problems going on with foster care. And I mean, we can definitely continue to talk about that.But I will say that I feel very fortunate at the timing of this book release because again, it was something Dr. John asked me to do with him in 2020. I put it off until 2022. I finally said yes. Then I had a baby. You know, we put it off and here we are.It took me a long time to get my act together and write my half.And so it's amazing to me the timing of this book release and whole point is that if we can multiply ourselves, if we can recruit better folks to foster. And when I say better. Let me, let me just clarify that statement for a second. There are wonderful, wonderful foster parents who exist.I would say Dr. John and I are wonderful foster parents. Our homes are safe. We're doing the best we can. No parent is perfect. But we're certainly not going to abuse the kids. We're going to advocate for them.We're, you know, putting the stipend where it goes and then still spending our own money, you know, where we want to heal these families. We're pro reunification when that's the best course for the child. You know, we're pro this, we're pro the family, so.But there are people that foster. One of the most common perceptions of foster care, I think is a fair word to use, is that foster homes are terrible.And I want to say that that can be true. There are a lot of foster parents that should not be in the game. They're in it for the money.I never understood that because when I was getting my stipend, I was like, what money? What are you talking about? And above, like, I. You know, and I don't want to discourage anybody from not fostering.There are resources and there are resources, and we talk about how to get them in this book. I wish I had this book because I didn't know. For example.

Right.

I wish I started fostering. They asked me for the boys. Do you want a WIC card? Right. Which is like a government food stock debit card.Well, I. I had a friend who was a single mom who got turned down for a WIC card. So nobody told me. And I turned it down for the boys because I thought it was sort of a lottery system. And I thought, you know what?Give that card to a mom who needs it. That's not how it works. Actually. There is not like a lottery system with WIC cards.And it would have actually been extremely helpful if I had used that resource for all the diapers and formula they needed. Jen.

I did the same thing. I said my husband and I were like, we don't need that. Like, that's for people who really need it.And, you know, first of all, it's for the child, Which I realized later, you know, I mean, it's really not. That is. They're entitled to that. And I did. I made that mistake, too.So that's such a great tip to give to any potential foster families or foster families currently. Take the WIC card. Get it.

I mean, you know, just for the formula alone. The child formula alone.

Oh, my gosh. Formula and diapers and wipes and, you know.

Yeah.

Set up cloths and all the things that you need, but there are so many resources. So I do not want to discourage people from fostering. Our goal is to encourage people from fostering, but to substantiate that claim.I remember after Dr. John and I were actually both speaking at the National Foster Care Association Summit, and between our speaking, they were like, you know, you have a free pass. You can go to whatever seminar you want. And I was like, oh, great. I love learning. I'm not a doctor, but I like to learn.I Was like, oh, they have a program, a seminar on the adoption assistance program. Well, I didn't know that you got assistance for your children after they were adopted.I had always wrongly assumed maybe people don't adopt out of foster care because they can't afford. And so they just keep the child with them long term, but maybe they just can't afford to adopt that child.I didn't understand that's also a misconception. No, they still get their monthly stipends. My boys have two forms of insurance. Like, if the boys. Something's wrong with them.I'm like, let's go to the er.

Yeah.

How bad is it?

Yeah, they do get. They get Medicaid until it's 21, I believe now. Right.

Depending on certain states.

Some states, for me it's 18.

Okay, 18. Okay, 18 to 21. And I think in California it's even up to 24.

I'm just curious about the adoption assistance program, though. Is that every state or is that only some states that do that?Because I've heard a lot of people on like online forums saying, like, we don't have any assistance. Like, once we adopt these kids, we're like, you know, totally stuck. And I'm, I adopted my children from la and I, we do get.Even though we moved to New York, we still get that stipend.

So.

Yeah.

Dr. Don, do you know the answer to that question?

My understanding is as every state.

Okay, but people just don't know about it, maybe.

Oh, many, many don't know about it.

So these are again, like, I think we even talk about that in the book as well. There are options.But I was in that class and I remember after the class being like, oh, I can't wait to meet all these people around me because this means they're into adoption. This is so wonderful. I can't wait to meet these people and form a community.And I remember this one woman, I remember literally having to stop and pray in my head because I was like, I don't know how to respond to her. I don't know if I kind of want to hit her until I want to like report her. This is so crazy. She.But I don't think I just was like, okay, just ended the conversation because I was literally like, what. What in. What is happening right now? Such an out of body experience.I was meeting all these people around me and it was only one woman that said this, but she goes, oh, yeah. So, you know, yeah, when you adopt, like, and you foster, you want to really get a d Rate kid. And I was like, what's a D Rate kid? And they said.She said, oh, well, the more you can get them behind in school, the more you can have them on medication. If you can get them to fail their classes and be on medication and have behavioral issues, this is what she said. Like, these are your motivators.Your stipend goes up. She was like, yeah, I have like nine kids. I make like 30 grand a month. And I was like, oh, my God.So there are people like this that exists, and we would like to recruit better people because if there were better people, maybe, just maybe they wouldn't approve. The people. They're so desperate right now that in 13 states, they're putting them in detention homes.

And that word is key. They are desperate right now. They're so desperate. You know, as I.As I was speaking just the other day in California and I was telling the audience that today's caseworkers are overworked, overwhelmed, under resourced, under supported, understaffed, underpaid. And our average caseworker today, last brand new out of college, lasts about the average length of a foster parent 18 to 22 months.Before they say, hey, this is tough. I'm out of here.

Wow.

Jen mentioned one word there. Community. And. And learning. You know, I. Since I became a foster parent, I've joined a whole other type of community that I never expected to join.I never would. Inventing. Right. And. And within that community, I have learned so much about parenting as well. You know, the three children I've adopted, some.Some challenges to be sure, to be sure. And I've been able to learn from mother, foster and adoptive parents within this community.There's a wonderful community that I've been so graciously allowed to join as a foster and adoptive parent.

Mm.

Yeah. What would you say to folks who are maybe called or they think they might be called, but there's this hesitation. There's just this fe.Getting involved in something that they're going to get over their heads in or getting too attached and then having to say goodbye or what. Can you speak to that?

You know, we've all probably heard the same thing, and I hear it almost daily. Dr. John, I couldn't do what you do. It would hurt too much. To what?

Get too tight for the kids when the kids leave? Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I tell people that's exactly how it's supposed to be. That's exactly how it's supposed to be. These kids need stability and they need structure and they need consistency.But what they need More than anything else is for us to love them unconditionally.These children need unconditional love because when they do leave, whether it's through adoption, reunification, whatever it might be, aging out, whatever it might be, a part of our heart breaks. It's because, like losing a member of our family.But that broken heart is a gift for that child because we, we could be the first person who's ever loved that child. We could be the first person who's ever cried over that child. And that's how we can change that child's world.So I tell people, you know, become attached. That's what they need more than anything else.In addition, there are lots of those misconceptions or myths that, you know, you have to have a big house, you don't. You have to be rich, you don't, you have to be married, you don't. Yeah, so those are some of the myths that we address in the book as well.

Yeah, I would say, I would add on to that regarding the attachment.I always tell people, yeah, but if your adult size heart can take a little bit of the pain that that child would otherwise have to sustain, then you've done your job. You know, we have coping skills these kids were never given. And I would also say that, and I talk about it in the intro of the book.Foster care stretched me in ways.

Oh yeah.

That nothing else has ever stretched me. And it breaks your heart for all the right things. And it has made me a more tender hearted, empathetic person. And I do not regret it for a moment.Like, there are things foster care taught me that even regular parenting cannot teach you that are so wonderful.And I would also say that if, you know, somebody thinks they're called to foster and they don't know where to start or they're fearful like you asked, I think I'll say to you the same thing that I said to my husband, which is, that's okay. Like, but I can't have you say no to something when you don't know what you're saying no to.Just go to, you know, go to a foster care orientation class. No one is going to force you to become a foster parent. Get information, find out what you're really saying no to before you say no.And I would also say there are so many ways to get involved in foster care before. Like there is a pool you can dip your foot, you know, your toe into. I was a mentor. That's what I did.I was a mentor through childhood special friends program, which is sort of like Big brothers, physical, big Sisters, you know, mentor a child who's already in the system. Mentors have a tremendous impact on the child, just like does.The statistics for a successful mentorship are almost as wonderful as, as having a healthy, stable foster home to live in. So don't underestimate the power of being a mentor. And once you do that, you kind of slowly, you can get.You can kind of ease your way into the right. Take a class.

Yeah.

You can also be a respite parent as well. You know, you may, maybe you can't be a full time foster parent, but you still want to have that experience. Respite parents are to be.Are needed to begin with. Oh, my goodness, I wish I had respite parents so many times.

Oh, my gosh.

Allows the foster family, maybe they have to go out of state for a wedding or a funeral, maybe there's a medical condition. Maybe they just need a break for a weekend. It allows that the foster family to, to have that break to do what they need to do.The children get to go to another licensed foster family for maybe a weekend or a couple days. And most likely they're going to be spoiled. Most likely they're going to be spoiled by this family who's so excited to have them.In addition, those children are able to form healthy relationships, learn how to trust somebody else at the same time. So they're continuing to form, you know, to learn. They're healing in that way. So everybody wins. Everybody wins.And if you enjoy that respite period, maybe you say, you know what, maybe I want to do this full time. Maybe I want to go full time into being foster parents.

Great advice. Both of you have biological children as well as adopted children through foster care.I also get the question a lot from parents that they want to do it, but they're afraid of, you know, a child with, for lack of a better term, with trauma, with baggage. Right. I'll use the word trauma because that's a better word and it's the truth.They're afraid of bringing that into their home and it affecting their biological children. What. How would you speak to that?

Well, my children, I think, have learned to love so much more like, like myself by being a foster sibling, they've learned so much more. They've recognized the signs of child abuse, of bullying, and they're. And they're quick to stand up.And I don't know if any of my kids will be foster parents, but what I'm seeing in all of them is that they are choosing a path of Serving others in some way. I've got one who's becoming a doctor. I've got one who's considering, I got, I've got to say about two becoming doctors.I got one considering becoming. My son's considering maybe becoming a minister. My son in law is a minister.And so I'm seeing that they're, they're journeying that path of how can I help others? And in addition, they have been able to. We've increased our family. You know, we've had over 60 plus kids.Every Christmas time we have other, our former foster kiddos come back and it's a wonderful reunion. So. But there have been times where it's been tough to be sure. And we've talked about that and we've addressed that.You know, when we get the phone call, get the call to be, we all talk. You know, here's the situation. How do we feel about this right now?A couple times we said no because sometimes the children, our kids all need a break. Many times they are sure, dad, let's do it. Let's do it.

Wow. How many children do you have at any given time in your home?

We averaged for seven years. We averaged nine.

We've had, imagine, Rachel, can you imagine?

No, no, I, I have two and I go crazy with two.

We've had, twice we've had 11. At one point we had seven in diapers.You know, we're kind of like a clown car on, on church on Sunday morning, kids just kept pop out of the car everywhere.

Wow, that's amazing. And Jen, are you fostering currently or you just have your hands full with all your, how many kids you have? Four, right?

I have four under 10.

Yeah.

So I have my hands full and I, as of recently, I was a caretaker for two more people. So I just took that off my plate.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

But my kids know about children in foster care and I used to do a charitable program where we would give Christmas gifts every year and different things like that. So they know, they ask all that. They fight all the time. And then they're. My kids are like normal kids.Like, they fight and then they're best of friends, right? They fight. And then I'm like, get your own bedroom. And they're like, no, why would we do that?I'm like, because you're hitting each other every night. And my kids are crazy. But then they're like, they'll fight and then they'll be like, so when are we getting more kids?And I'm like, why do you think mommy and Daddy can handle more kids right now. But I do tell them that once, my youngest, who is three, when she's in kindergarten, I said, then maybe we'll do respite care.I would really like to do respite care. And it's so needed, like Dr. John said. And we talk about that in the book. And then here's why. I think respite care is amazing too, Dr. John said.As Dr. John said, of course, like, if they fall in love with the child or they decide this is for them full time, then great. They don't have to take any more classes. To my knowledge. You know, they're kind of already licensed. They're ready to go.But what's so great about respite parenting is that you are generally going to get that kid in their honeymoon period. So be like the fun home. Like, you get to be like, spoil them.Like, you don't have to worry so much about discipline other than, like, if they're hurting somebody, then you gotta, like, intervene. But other than that, you could totally be the home that's like, let's go get ice cream and, like, go to the pool and, you know. Right.Fun house and then give them back. So I want to do respite once Jackie's in kindergarten and then maybe as the kids get older, move into foster care.But, you know, I'm still just, like, keeping my. Keeping my head above water.

Oh, yeah.

I want to add one more thing about my own kids. I firmly believe, and I'm just having this thought right now for the first time, but I believe that my children, and My oldest is 28. My youngest is.Is 12. I've got a long ways to go, but I. But I. But I believe that it has.When they have cared for children in crisis in their own home, when they've seen the abuse and suffering, etc. And when they've learned to love them, it's brought our own family together. It's from my own family. Much closer together.It's brought my children much closer together because they had to rely on each other during some very, very difficult, traumatic times. Now they. They are. They're drawn together.They've shared those difficult moments, and sometimes they look back and they laugh at some of the craziness that went through.

That's really beautiful. Yeah. I think that, you know, a lot of people are looking for ways to make a difference. The world seems so crazy right now.It's just like, you know, everyone knows it's like, insane, and nobody can seem to really do anything about It. It's just like, where we are. And I just think to myself, like, what better thing could you do with your time?Like, honestly, with your time, your energy, your spirit. What. What else? I mean, what are you gonna do? You know, you can. You can help in this way, and it make a true difference in somebody's life, you know?And I just think it's. It's incredible.I want to amplify this message and get people thinking that they can do it instead of just letting the fear run the show and never stepping out of that into, you know, having the courage to take the step.

I have every excuse in the book for why I shouldn't be a foster parent. I'm an actress. I travel, I go. I'm going to go for three weeks to go film, you know, at the end of this week.Like, you want to give me a resume on why you don't think you can do it? I can probably match your resume. Right.

How do you handle that, Jen? Do you. Do you bring the kids with you or do you just. You have help at home and you.

I have a wonderful husband. Sometimes my parents help. Like, they might take one kid, which three kids is actually much easier than four.Like, you go down by one and you're like, okay, but we just have a system. Like, we talk about that. Like having boundaries, having rules, having just kind of a plan.Like, if you have a plan, you can endure anything for short periods of time. And then I just am very disciplined as far as my schedule. I. I have. Let me actually tell you how many lists, because this is funny. Okay.At the moment, I have 1287 lists on my iPhone, so I. I have like to do. To do asap. To do today.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, list as by priority. And I just. They call it.In business, they call it swallowing the frog, where it's like, I do whatever I don't want to do that has to get done, and you just do it. I mean, Dr. John's the same way. We're both kind of workaholics and you just figure it out. But I view my.My role as a mom as like a job that's kind of compartmentalize it. It's like, okay, now I'm in mom mode, right? You know? Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah. My wife and I. My wife and I have this saying. We just make it happen. People say, do it. How do you do it? We make it happen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is a priority. This is the priority. And you make it happen.

Yeah. It's true. It's true. And nothing teaches you that better than having kids because it's just they, they become, they have to be the priority.They just do, you know, I mean, there's other priorities, but that is always my, my, my biggest priority in running in my, the back of my head, in the front of my head. You know what I mean? It's just 100.

It's like when a non parent is like, well, I hope you get some rest.

And you're like, well, you're like, okay, yeah, in 10 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

Years. I'll, I'll pencil in that rest.

And that's what. And Jen mentioned her husband Jason, who's a fantastic guy. And, and they're, they're partners. And my wife and I are. We.We both have strength, we both have weaknesses. And I couldn't imagine being a foster parent without my wife because she's better at some things than I am. We rely upon each other to be sure.And when we're suffering from heartbreak. I remember coming home one time and my wife was our fourth failed adoption. And I came home three weeks after the fourth failed option.My wife was on the bathroom floor in tears, just in tears. Do this anymore. So she needed me to, to pick her up at that time. And she's picked me up many times as well.And I know Jen has that same thing with Jason. You know, at the same time, you don't have to be married to be a foster parent. I know some amazing single foster parents as well.

Same I do too. And I want to actually ask you about that. You did mention community before.How do people, especially if they don't have a partner to walk through this with, how do they go about forming community with other people that are going through this?

So the first thing our caseworker did back in 2002 when my wife and I first became licensed as foster parents, was connect us to our local foster parent support group, which I had no idea it existed. I live in a town of about 3,000 people. Jen's been there, but I did not know there was a prosper and support group in our town.And she connected us to that and boy, that was invaluable, valuable. I learned so much watching these foster parents that I didn't know were boss parents. I learned so much from them.Watching how they took care of a situation, how they handled a situation, how they, you know, when the child was entering the home or whether it's reunification from the child left the home. I learned so much from them and at the same time, when I'm struggling with something, I can ask them because most likely they want.I think as well, you know, we have to align ourselves with people who have walked the same path in whatever area it is in life. So we can not only gain wisdom, but gain support. Because there's times I've wanted to just vent or break down in tears.

Yeah.

And the only person was really going to understand it without judging me.

Yeah.

Fashion was fellow Flash, because.

Yeah, it's true.

Because we're crazy. It's a crazy lifestyle.

You've got it. Nobody understands it other than other parents.

It's very true.

After. In our book that answers that question. And I would just. Great.Like, it's in our book and obviously we've done this interview and, you know, you're gonna hear some of our stuff. But, like, I'm not trying to sell a book. I don't Even know if Dr. John and I get like a quarter or something for sale, you know, if we're lucky.So it's not about, like, selling books, but it really is equipping people. We have a whole chapter in it. But I'll just say that briefly and I talk about it in the book in more detail.It's very funny story, but I found all my foster family, community, like, fellow foster parents.I found all of them through Instagram because I went to some local things in LA and I was like, some of these people are super sketchy and I don't want them to know me. So I found to people online and then like, DM to them, you know, can we, like, zoom? Can we.Can we, like, we would start DMing and then I would, you know, other moms, I wouldn't have talking to, like, dads, because that would be super weird. And I feel, personally, I feel like it's a little bit inappropriate, but I, you know, talk to other foster moms and then I would.At the time, I would have them on my podcast and then, you know, my zoom or something. Because it would just. Because Dr. John said, like, it's like you just. You need. You need to vent. Like, there's a whole different form of.You don't understand. I love this child. Like, they're my own. I don't have parental rights over them. I.You have to come up with more creative disciplines that aren't going to, like, further trauma, you know?

Yes, yes.

You know, of all these, like, disciplinary things, sometimes you're like, I have gotten to my last tool. Does anybody else have, like, a good idea? Right, right.

And that's a good point too, to just to make in mention is that, you know, realistically, all of these children are going to have some kind of special need, right? Like, that's just the reality of it. But people get scared when they hear special needs. Special needs. It's obviously a spectrum.There's, you know, some will have higher needs, some will have lower needs. How do people prepare themselves for a child that will have some kind of special needs?

I'll refer to the expert. Dr. John.

You know, Jen's heard me tell the story before. When I first became a VOS parent, I thought I was so ready. You know, how hard can this be? How hard can this be, Right? Children.My wife had a degree in psychology. I was a teacher. We traveled the world. Our first child died. We experienced it all. So I thought this training was like, you know, this is okay.And then the first placement came at 10:30 night, two girls. And by 10:50 at night, 20 minutes later, I recognized, oh, my gosh, what in the world's going on? My training did not prepare me for this.I need to learn more. So there's podcasts, there's videos, there's webinars, there's books, but there's your fellow FOSH parent as well.So every time a child comes into your home, they may have experienced, maybe it's a large sibling group.We've had a couple groups of sibling groups of five, and they've all experienced the same thing in the house, but every child is going to react to that differently. They're all going to react to that differently.So that means every time you get a new placement, it's going to be a new experience because that child has experienced it differently. So learning never stops in your foster parent. You always have to learn.You know, I've learned sleep anxieties and eating disorders and reactive attachment disorder and all these disorders and anxieties that I never knew about beforehand because the children place in my home. So I'm always seeking out learning and knowledge and information so I'm best equipped, give them the support services they need in my own home.And that strengthens me as a. As a parent of my own children as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Where can people find the book? How can they buy this book?

Of course, on Amazon, where we all get everything. Yeah, I don't actually know where you can get it other than Amazon, but it's on Amazon. Okay. For pre order right now.It releases on May 5th, Cinco de Mayo. Okay. Exciting day.

Awesome.

And my kids so Anyway, so it's called An Honest Guide to Getting Started. And the word honest, it will make you cry and it will, I think, encourage you.If you're already in foster care, I think it will give you the stamina to keep going. I think if you're a social worker, it will give you the stamina to keep going.I think it's a great resource for people who are already in it and for social workers. But I also think, obviously it's for anybody that's thinking about it and wants to get started and has nowhere to go. So, yeah, really fun.I think the font too. I wish. I'm gonna, like, try to show you. The font is like a good size.

I feel like, oh, nice. That's important. I can't see anything anymore, so I love this.

Yeah.

Like, give me a bigger font. You know, organize it.

You know, like, there's bullet point list. It'll say Jen or Dr. John. And it goes back and forth and it's just very fun. Like, it's.

It is a fun book.

Did you guys do an audiobook as well, or.

No, but we should, in all of our spare time. Dr. Jones. Yes.

Right.

Well, yeah, that's true.

You know, people often ask how you do it on 24 hours. They say, well, I'm in the 32 hour day. I don't know about you, But I'm the 32 hour day.

Yeah.

You know, it's a fun book. All the books I've written, this was the most enjoyable. I learned a lot from Jen. And what I like about the book is it's two different voices.

Very different.

Yeah, yeah.

So bringing two different perspectives, all for the same thing. Caring for children in crisis.

Have you ever co authored a book with anybody else?

No.

Really?

What was that process like? Did you work together?

We had a Google Doc and I would just. We would just write like Jen or Dr. John and we would just write down, you know, in our section and written so many books.He was so wonderful to be my first book writing experience with because he gave me an outline and then I don't know how he does it. You're so disciplined. You'll be like, just write an hour every day. And I'm one of those people that hyper focuses.So I have to just like, I'm gonna sit here and write it for, you know, 18 hours a day for seven days in a row, and then I'm done. He's like, no, just an hour a day. I'm like, an hour a day. It takes me 40 minutes for my brain to be like, so what are we going to say today?You know, and we pick up the.

Phone and say, hey, you know, how about this? How about that? How about this idea? You know, I. I never thought about co writing a book. Never thought about doing it.And then the more I got to learn to, to know Jen and value our, Our dear friendship, I thought, who else would I want to write a book with?

Nice.

Can't think of anybody else because. Because her perspective, her insight, her heart, her love, her values, not only, not only a lot of those match mine, but they inspire me.So I thought this is the perfect person to write. I don't have anything else new to say, but wow, I've got so much more to say because of what Jen is saying.

Yeah, I love that. I really love that. I think it's a wonderful resource. I'm going to include it on my.I'm putting together a resource list for in May is Foster Care Awareness Month, and so that's going straight up to the top of that list. And yeah, just thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show and tell us about the book.I'm thrilled that you guys were able to make it, both of you at the same time. Wow.

Yeah. We love you, Rachel. We really are honored to be on your podcast.I mean, it was a very easy yes and we both were like, we'll just figure it out in our schedule. We got to talk to Rachel. So we love you.

Yeah. Oh, that's so awesome.

And we just thank you for having us on.

Oh, of course. I'll put a link to the pre order in the show notes and just be well, guys. Thank you. Until we meet again.